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thehefner1.) We got tomorrow's shipment of comics, and while I haven't read them all yet (and we'll get our asses sued off if we sell one or even have anyone look at them before midnight Wednesdays), I've skimmed over a few. A couple thoughts:
a.) Dude, doesn't it fucking suck ASS when a writer uses an idea you've had in the back of your brain for years? MotherFUCKER. I speak of the ending of the flawed but intriguing BATMAN/TWO-FACE: JECKYLL AND HYDE. Without spoiling it, Harvey decided to deal with Two-Face once and for all, and it was exactly, EXACTLY what I was thinking. FUUCK.
b.) When Dave reads the first issue of GREEN LANTERN CORPS: RECHARGE, you will hear his squeal of joy all across the globe. Just like Wolverine giving Scott "the middle claw," I think this is the Guy Gardner moment that people have been wanting to write for years but never could. I'm a Hal Jordan man, but fuck me, I love Guy Gardner so much. Not surprising, as my best friend is Guy incarnate.
2.) Like most of you here, I am looking forward to seeing SERENTIY. With my comic shop connection, I may also be getting a pass to a sneak preview next week. If I do, there's only one person I'd want to see this film with and that's my mother. Not so much because I'm a momma's boy, and fuck you yes I am, but because... well, how shall I put this? She dislikes Buffy and Angel even more than I do (she deeply loves Farscape, B5, and Star Wars, but somehow can't "believe" magic, vampires, and superheroes) but we both really liked Firefly. When I told her about the poissibility for passes, she was really excited.
"Yeah," I said, "too bad we'll have to sit in a whole audience of Browncoats."
"What's a Browncoat?" she asked.
"You remember the rebels that Mal was a part of? The ones who had their asses whipped?"
"Ohh, yeah."
"Well, those were the Browncoats, remember? Welp, that's what Firefly fans call themselves. Trek fans call themselves Trekkies or Trekkers, Firefly fans are... Browncoats."
There was a pause while she took this in.
"Oh, give me a fucking break!" she said, rolling her eyes.
And that, my friends, is why I am seeing this movie with her.
3.) One more little note on Firefly. I like the show a hell of a lot. Me, the Whedon detractor (although everytime I hear dialog like, "I don't wanna explode" said by someone who isn't Helium the loveable balloon creature from The Adventures of August Strindberg and Helium it makes me seriously want to cut a bitch. "Groiny." Yeah, you die now, Whedon). It was awesome, yes. But guys, WHAT'S THE BIG FUCKING DEAL?? The show wasn't brilliant! It might have been, hell, with three seasons it could have been earth-shaking. But as it was, it was just a well-written and fun show and not much bloody else! Closest explanation I can give to this obsession is that people are projecting their Whedon love from Buffy or Angel onto Firefly, as if Firefly had managed to achieve what those other shows did. Now, SERENITY may well achieve something worthy of drooling crazed obsession, especially if it becomes a trilogy. But as the TV series? Guys, I've read comics that in 12 issues that accomplished more and did it even more brilliantly than Firefly did in one season. I can't help but feel like all these fans are as much obsessed with what could have been rather than what actually was.
4.) Reason #46 why I love Gordon Hagen (my stepfather). A little while ago he decided he would give me some romantic advice to sweep the ladies off their feet. He said, "Turn the lights low. Put some music on. The look her right in the eyes and ask her, 'Kid... is you is... or is you ain't my baby?'"
a.) Dude, doesn't it fucking suck ASS when a writer uses an idea you've had in the back of your brain for years? MotherFUCKER. I speak of the ending of the flawed but intriguing BATMAN/TWO-FACE: JECKYLL AND HYDE. Without spoiling it, Harvey decided to deal with Two-Face once and for all, and it was exactly, EXACTLY what I was thinking. FUUCK.
b.) When Dave reads the first issue of GREEN LANTERN CORPS: RECHARGE, you will hear his squeal of joy all across the globe. Just like Wolverine giving Scott "the middle claw," I think this is the Guy Gardner moment that people have been wanting to write for years but never could. I'm a Hal Jordan man, but fuck me, I love Guy Gardner so much. Not surprising, as my best friend is Guy incarnate.
2.) Like most of you here, I am looking forward to seeing SERENTIY. With my comic shop connection, I may also be getting a pass to a sneak preview next week. If I do, there's only one person I'd want to see this film with and that's my mother. Not so much because I'm a momma's boy, and fuck you yes I am, but because... well, how shall I put this? She dislikes Buffy and Angel even more than I do (she deeply loves Farscape, B5, and Star Wars, but somehow can't "believe" magic, vampires, and superheroes) but we both really liked Firefly. When I told her about the poissibility for passes, she was really excited.
"Yeah," I said, "too bad we'll have to sit in a whole audience of Browncoats."
"What's a Browncoat?" she asked.
"You remember the rebels that Mal was a part of? The ones who had their asses whipped?"
"Ohh, yeah."
"Well, those were the Browncoats, remember? Welp, that's what Firefly fans call themselves. Trek fans call themselves Trekkies or Trekkers, Firefly fans are... Browncoats."
There was a pause while she took this in.
"Oh, give me a fucking break!" she said, rolling her eyes.
And that, my friends, is why I am seeing this movie with her.
3.) One more little note on Firefly. I like the show a hell of a lot. Me, the Whedon detractor (although everytime I hear dialog like, "I don't wanna explode" said by someone who isn't Helium the loveable balloon creature from The Adventures of August Strindberg and Helium it makes me seriously want to cut a bitch. "Groiny." Yeah, you die now, Whedon). It was awesome, yes. But guys, WHAT'S THE BIG FUCKING DEAL?? The show wasn't brilliant! It might have been, hell, with three seasons it could have been earth-shaking. But as it was, it was just a well-written and fun show and not much bloody else! Closest explanation I can give to this obsession is that people are projecting their Whedon love from Buffy or Angel onto Firefly, as if Firefly had managed to achieve what those other shows did. Now, SERENITY may well achieve something worthy of drooling crazed obsession, especially if it becomes a trilogy. But as the TV series? Guys, I've read comics that in 12 issues that accomplished more and did it even more brilliantly than Firefly did in one season. I can't help but feel like all these fans are as much obsessed with what could have been rather than what actually was.
4.) Reason #46 why I love Gordon Hagen (my stepfather). A little while ago he decided he would give me some romantic advice to sweep the ladies off their feet. He said, "Turn the lights low. Put some music on. The look her right in the eyes and ask her, 'Kid... is you is... or is you ain't my baby?'"
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no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 08:00 pm (UTC)hehe, i love gordon.
Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-20 08:04 pm (UTC)Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-20 08:18 pm (UTC)Geeks of any stripe that are not my own, including but absolutely not limited to HP, Trek, Stargate, Lost, Tolkien, Ren Faire, gaming, role playing, cosplaying, baseball history/stats, magnolias, taxidermy, etc. make me feel deeply, deeply uncomfortable. The more passionate they are, the more I really don't like being around them when they are in the midst of geekgasm. I only enjoy geekgasm when I can partake in it otherwise, in which case I am the odd man out in something I just don't or maybe even can't comprehend. And I know that many people feel the same way whenever I get on with comics, so I know I'm not alone in feeling like this.
Does that make sense?
Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-20 08:25 pm (UTC)Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-20 08:28 pm (UTC)Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-20 08:35 pm (UTC)Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-21 01:27 am (UTC)It's how I knew things were never going to go anywhere with the last guy I dated, he snorted and turned his nose up at my comic/sci-fi fandom, but couldn't take any digs about his liking to watch large grown men grope each other on wrestling.
Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-21 06:39 am (UTC)This wasn't an attack. It was an opinion. That's all.
Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-21 04:30 pm (UTC)Re: Uhhh...
Date: 2005-09-21 07:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 08:13 pm (UTC)2) re: 4). Snarfle. That's utterly wonderful. Please try it. I really want to know what happens.
3) re: 1) (this one). You know, yours was the first live one I ever saw besides my little brother's when we made us take baths together (WHICH STOPPED WHEN I TURNED FIVE, THANKS), and my dad's (when I walked into the unlocked bathroom once). Yours was, then, the virgin penis to my sightline. And while I was expecting it, I was not exactly asking for it, was I? No. Really, given a choice, I could have gone for the rest of my natural life knowing you and would have been no worse off for not having seen it. So if you interpret that as an unwilling glance, then...does that mean you visually raped me?
See, THIS is why we no longer play or talk about "put de lime in da coconut." Argh.
4) re: 3). Why is livejournal somehow the appropriate venue for this? What is the magic of lj that so permeates that air that this subject can be safely broached? Dude, it's just weird.
5) re: 5). Can you have a point re: that point?
no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 08:25 pm (UTC)But it's really not a safe place. In fact, I have probably incurred the wrath of Firefly fans for weeks to come. I very much expect at least two smacks over the head and five dirty looks at rehearsal tonight. LJ is the devil, and evil place where tone and context are stripped away and nothing is where it seems.
Your point the penis.) Man, wow... I'd feel sorta honored if I wasn't... if it wasn't excatly... jeez, how do I put this? What you saw is not what you or anyone else for that matter would get. And I'm afraid that not everyone seems to know that sometimes they work that way.
Your point the fifth.) What the hell are you talking about? Silly person.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 08:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 09:39 pm (UTC)..
The metaphor just gets worse and worse.
You got honors? Yay!
no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 09:42 pm (UTC)Blame Jason.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 10:06 pm (UTC)It would at least give you a conversational in.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 09:01 pm (UTC)3) I never liked Buffy or Angel. I never read the comics for Serenity. But I've seen the trailer and it looks like a fun movie, so I'll probably go.
4) Your stepfather sounds like a cool dude. I remember this episode of Tome & Jerry where Tom sings that song to a lady cat and Jerry keeps messing him up...anyway, reading the line in your LJ made me smile :)
no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 09:05 pm (UTC)And yeah, Gordon is something very special. Yay for smiling!
Nuh Uh
Date: 2005-09-21 01:32 am (UTC)Re: Nuh Uh
Date: 2005-09-21 04:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 10:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-20 10:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 03:27 pm (UTC)It's not that I'm obsessed with what it could have been. Firefly is best taken in individual episodes, not long-term story arcs. There is an interesting overall flow, but it was designed to be more episodic than Buffy was. (Angel was also supposed to be more episodic, but it didn't work out that way.)
Things that I liked about Firefly (aside from what you've already mentioned):
* Acting. Nearly every performance is better than nealy any performance on Angel or Buffy. And I'd say the same goes for B5 and Farscape, though I've only caught the first few episdoes of Farscape so perhaps they get better. They're not bad (well, the male lead is), but I find that in Firefly the actors make more interesting and more successful choices. Wonderfully downplayed but deeply rich.
* Visual look. It doesn't appeal to everybody, but I liked the old West/sci-fi combo. Even aside from those choices, the art design feels very solid. The "hand-held camera" in space shots is neat. Compared to that B5 and Farscape feel kind of like the costumes and CG effects were done by the best guy at some convention: good, but amateur.
I like the fact that Farscape finally breaks (to some degree) the "all aliens look like humans with head bumps" notion, but they're still Muppets. The caricature nature of Muppets works great in comedies but feels amateurish in a drama.
The biggest thing that B5 had going for it were long story arcs. I gather that's one of the key virtues of Farscape, too. If that's your preference, cool. But all through B5 I found the acting cringe-worthy and the writing stilted. Farscape is better in both categories, but I still vastly preferred both in Firefly. I haven't seen any of the long-term story arc of Farscape. In fact the DVDs present the episodes out of order, which I find deeply distressing.
So I can't really say if we're disagreeing about what constitutes good acting and writing, or if we just have different overall goals. Or, in the case of Farscape, if I just haven't seen enough of it.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 07:33 pm (UTC)I thought Kaylee was cute as a button, but I didn't think she was an exceptionally good actress. A lot of the times what she was saying didn't quite seem to match how she was saying it. Not the best analogy here, but it sort of felt like a urbanite city girl trying to play a hick with all the words but none of the dialect, y'know? That's sorta what I'm trying to say.
I too loved the westerness. It's odd that so many people I know would watch that and yet not see a Sergio Leone or Sam Peckinpaw movie because they "eh, don't like westerns." And yeah, that was one pretty show. Looks like it cost an assload. Farscape soon got as big as that itself, in cinematography and sets and costumes and quality, and that was one of reasons it got cancelled- it just cost too much.
The acting in Farscape does improve after season one, though. As for John's skills, I offer this perspective: he's Bruce Campbell in space. That's how I think of him. I go back and rewatch the Evil Dead movies and think, "wow, I love this man, but a good actor he most certainly ain't." I love them both for doing what they do in that way, y'know?
Long character arcs are really what I live for. It's why I love comics so much. I love to see how people develop, how they change and how they don't. I like a bit of epic, y'know? Firefly had excellent little stories that were fun, but I took nothing away from it. Nothing really moved me enough to buy the DVD set, to cherish anything.
If you want to try to follow the order of Farscape episodes, mayhaps you can find the order on a fansite or something.
This is the kind of reasoned, rational, explanatory response I've been waiting for this whole time. Thank you, Josh.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 07:46 pm (UTC)I saw the actress playing Kaylee play a different character on Wonderfalls, and she didn't do much for me, but I liked her very much on Firefly. Perhaps it's because she's the ultimate geek-girl fantasy. One of my very favorite moments in the series is when she's at a fancy-dress party, surrounded by fawning men while she waxes about the differences between engine types. Not a great actress, but I loved her when she geeked.
Towards the end of season 1 the episodes of Farscape get in order. I suspect that they're presented on the DVDs as the director might have wanted them, even if it was different from the shooting order or the original play order. But if it does get into a longer-term story arc, they have to go in the original order, so it settles down.
I once saw an interview with a network executive saying that Friends would have been cancelled today based on its early ratings. Given that it was the most popular show for a long time, that's quite remarkable: he's saying he would have cancelled something that turned into a major hit, but I understand it. Would I have stuck with Farscape or B5 long enough to see it get good if it weren't for the encouragement of friends who had already watched it?
Every time Firefly comes up on Slashdot there are always a bunch of people who don't like Firefly (and you clearly did; you just don't get the people who love it.) The love is always a hard thing to figure out; it either happens or it doesn't.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 05:29 pm (UTC)where would you be getting these passes from?
no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 07:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 08:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-21 10:13 pm (UTC)