I have two guns, one for each of ya.

[thehefner]

Here's the thing that blows my mind.

How can a movie have one of the greatest casts I've ever seen-- Kurt Russell, Sam Elliot, Bill Paxton, Michael Biehn, Powers Boothe, Charlton Heston, Thomas Hayden Church, Michael Rooker, Billy Bob Thornton, Dana Delaney, Terry O'Quinn, John Corbett, Jason Priestley, Robert Mitchum-- and yet the only thing anyone remembers or cares about TOMBSTONE is how fucking excellent Val Kilmer is as Doc Holliday.

Yeah, y'know how everyone hailed Johnny Depp's performance as Captain Jack Sparrow as something new and amazing and stellar? Uh, I hadn't realized it until about an hour ago, but, uh, I think Val did it first. Seriously, I... I think he did!

Now I want a Doc Holliday/Cap'n Jack cross-country road trip. Seriously. Now. Do it. Do it now.

The movie itself was great fun. Not brilliant, and now I really want to know how much of it was true, what wasn't, and what people just don't know either way. It was classic Hollywood western, and fun for that.

Now I'm anxious to check out WYATT EARP, which I understand is more flawed, but perhaps the better movie.


... based on TOMBSTONE alone, though, I'm going to have to consider the Dent/Gordon to Holliday/Earp theory as "what could have been" for now. "What might have been." Had they had a few more years together.

Comments

[kmousie.livejournal.com]

Oh, Tombstone. One of my favorite movies. And Val's best work, in my opinion. I want to say so far, but I'm not sure one can top that performance. (You're right...Captain Jack is very Doc-esque!) Yeah, the cast is amazing. I haven't seen Wyatt Earp, mainly because I love Tombstone so very much.

As for historical accuracy, a fair amount of it was true. You really should go to Tombstone if you ever get the chance. I was there years ago, back in the days when my grandparents used to winter in Tucson. It was neat to be there and see everything. For one thing, Kate wasn't nearly as hot in real life. I've seen pictures! *laughs*

Gosh, I'm doing some reading, and Morgan was killed the day before Wyatt's birthday. Damn.

[justcomeinalone.livejournal.com]

The scene of how Wyatt killed Bill was taken from eye-witness accounts who claimed that's just what happened, that Wyatt went nuts and charged into the waters screaming "NO!" repeatedly as he shout off several rounds and killed Bill. The shoot-out at the OK Corrall is the most historically accurate part of the movie. If you read the newspaper article about that shoot-out, you can see that not only did the action take place just as the movie depicts, but so did the dialogue. "Get to fighting or get away" is quoted in the article as Wyatt Earp's words. Likewise, the article says Sheriff Beehan told them he'd disarmed the cowboys, a statement that was ignored. THe only thing the movie added ot the OK Corrall fight was the brief scuffle when Doc is shooting at Ike through the window.

The photo that Josephine was taking when the fightingl breaks out? She did infact pose for an identical photo and it's the most famous one of her (though she didn't pose for it on the same day as the OK Coral).

When Doc Holliday died, he asked for a shot of whiskey first. Then, a priest and a nurse saw him look at his uncovered feet and mutter "I'll be damned ... this is funny." He also did indeed have feelings for a cousin who later joined a convent.

Wyatt's wife I believe only started doing drugs after she realized Wyatt was in love with Josephine. After Wyatt left her, she committed suicide sometime later.

I believe Morgan's death happened under other circumstances. Interestingly, the movie makes no mention of the fourth Earp brother, who also lived in tombstone.

Wyatt rejoined the law enforcement (reluctantly) a while BEFORE the OK Corral incident happened, because Virgil had to leave town for a while and wanted to make sure Tombstone was looked after.

When Bill shot Fred White, he was not high on opium, he was drunk. Also, he did not shoot Fred White in the heart but rather in the groin. Some witnesses said it was clearly an accident. White took a few hours to die, if I recall correctly.

Doc Holliday's fued with Ike and the Clantons started largely because Ike framed Doc for a robbery he himself committed. Doc's girl Kate helped in this frame-up, being angry at Doc over a fight, and Doc left her after this.

Wyatt Earp taking a gun out of a cowboy's belt and hitting him in the head with it did happen, though under different circumstances. Same concerning the encounter with Johnny Tyler.

The brothers did indeed work at that bar/mini-casino. Doc's girl "Big-Nose" Kate had a brothel nearby. Johnny Ringo was definitely that crazy. He once shot a fellow cowboy in the face for preferring beer over whiskey (or maybe it was the other way around, the details are fuzzy).

How Johnny Ringo died is a mystery. He was said to be depressed for days leading up to his body being discovered and he was found with a bullet in his head, apparently a suicide. However, his boots were off adn his gun belt was on upside down, leading many to speculate that he'd been murdered or killed in a gun duel that someone didn't want to take credit for. Doc Holliday was a major suspect. Although Holliday was apparently in court on the day of or the day before Ringo's death, too far way for him to have reached Ringo at the time of death, it's been mentioned by some that Holliday could have easily had someone act as an impostor and go to court in his place, as this was done many times back in those days.

What Wyatt said about having only been in one real gunfight was true. He used intimidation rather than guns originally. Holliday's opening scene with him at the card game where he stabs that guy in the gut? That happened, just differently.

The main problem with Tombstone is the timeline of events. Things happened much more gradually and over a longer period of time than the movie gave the impression of. Also, I wished they'd shown just how Wyatt and Doc became friends, since that's a favorite story of mine.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Take care!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Dude, awesome! (off the top of your head... you glorious geek, you!)

The history itself is very Hollywood, isn't it? I really do have to wonder how much of it is true. Because if even half of that stuff is true, that truly is some awesomely dramatic material!

Did you see WYATT EARP with Costner? Any thoughts there?

[justcomeinalone.livejournal.com]

Well, all the history I've mentioned is stuff that was reported by MULTIPLE witnesses (i.e. the priest and the nurse who witnessed Doc Holliday's last words), documents between folks (such as letters in which John Holliday spoke of his love for his cousin) or newspaper articles (the OK Corral shoot-out, the death of Billy, the death of Fred White). So the fact is, if some of this isn't real then that means folks lied together to the press and to history and there's no way to find counter-evidence now. Note that I pointed out places where we simply don't know what happened such as how Ringo died. It's possible it was Holliday, it's possible he pissed someone else off, it's even possible he actually DID commit suicide and was so drunk that day he took off his boots and wore his gunbelt on upside down just cuz.

The bits of about Wyatt Earp hitting a man with his own gun and his encounter with Johnny Tyler are suspect because I think it was Wyatt Earp himself who later reported this in his penny novels (BTW, that book he gives Doc in the end? THat is an accurate reproduction of the cover to "My Friend, Doc Holliday" written by Wyatt Earp). Wyatt was not above exagerrating himself to some folks to help his intimidating rep (the only reason I give the story of how he killed Curly Bill any merit actually is beause it was other folks who reported it. Then again, those other folks were his friends, so yes, others could make the case they might've lied or exagerrated too). A lot of their exploits seem a bit larger than life, but personally I like to beleive that's WHY they became famous and well known in the first place, before books started being published about them, when the news travelled about their adventures via newspapers and word of mouth. A lot of the history of Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack seems like a soap opera, but we know a lot of it's true.

Another thing I wish the movie had added was that Dr. John Holliday was a Dentist for years before becoming a professional gambler/gunfighter. The idea of a dentist being so bad-ass and unafraid of death becuase he was a walking corpse always struck me as funny and weirdly poetic.

I saw WYATT EARP long ago and far away. Quaid is excellent in his portrayal of Doc Holliday (though I don't think he had the same wonderful madness that Kilmer had). Costner is not bad as Earp and the movie is a bit more historically accurate on some points. In my own opinion, it's a lot more slower paced (which is not necessarily a bad thing) and some of the dialogue is just plain cheesy, so I thinkyou have to chalk that up to a personal preference as to what kind of western you like. Personally, TOMBSTONE is my favorite of the two.

It's my hope one day to film a version of TOMBSTONE that is as historically accurate as possible, citing dates and noting times when we're just not sure what happened to some people. We'll see.

[kmousie.livejournal.com]

I believe Morgan's death happened under other circumstances.

According to the City of Tombstone Chamber of Commerce site, Morgan was shot in the back March 18, 1882 while playing billiards in a saloon with a man named Bob Hatch.

Thanks for the information!

[justcomeinalone.livejournal.com]

There you go! Yeah, I just can't remember if Bob Hatch had any connection to the cowboys. My gut says "no."

And yer welcome. :-)

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I'd agree about that being Val's best work, but I'd put REAL GENIUS and KISS KISS BANG BANG right behind. Wow, he really is better adept at comedy, isn't he? I'm glad he's going back to more comedies!

WYATT EARP is supposedly much more flawed, much longer and more slowly-paced, so it's a slow-burn character study on the person rather than the action-packed event of TOMBSTONE (which, whether history is true or not, is a very Hollywood story!). And it's Kevin Costner in a western, which is always a good sign. What's the rule about the only good Kevin Costner movies are westerns and baseball movies...?

Dad and I almost went to Tombstone back when we were in Arizona, visiting Hugh's mother before going to the mansion! As I never get down to that area anymore, I regret that we never did it.

Wow. Happy birthday, Wyatt! yeeel.

[kmousie.livejournal.com]

What's the rule about the only good Kevin Costner movies are westerns and baseball movies...?

That's exactly the rule. I may have to see it someday.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

And I need to finally see BULL DURHAM before all my baseball friends kill me. Not to mention DANCES WITH WOLVES.

Did you see OPEN RANGE? That's the Costner movie I'm currently championing.

[kmousie.livejournal.com]

Bull Durham is amazing. It's one of my favorite baseball movies, and it's also one of my favorite movies period. The baseball is incredible, and the character development is phenomenal. Plus, it's funny. Some of the best lines ever written.

Dances With Wolves...as a Native American Studies major, I'm ambivalent about the film. But it's beautifully shot, well acted, and features lots and lots of Native actors. And languages. So that's always a good thing. You'll enjoy it. Sometimes a lack of awareness of Native politics is blissful.

I haven't seen Open Range, but I will sometime. My parents saw it and said it was awesome.

[gnort.livejournal.com]

what do you want on your tombstone? lol pizza commercial

Powers Boothe is popping up a lot. Up until about a month ago, as far as I knew he was only the guy who voiced Gorilla Grodd. Then he popped up in this season of 24 as the new vice president who's half douchebag half hardcore badass who doesn't take any shit, now I hear about this..it's spooky.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Plus, SIN CITY and DEADWOOD, which I still need to seee. Badass motherfucker.

[disc-sophist.livejournal.com]

So what time period were you thinking? I immediately get them in modern day, driving an El Camino, backseat full of whiskey and rum, with a radio that only works half the time and is the point of great contention when it does catch a tune. Lots of dialogue, lots of swerving, lots of little roadside bar adventures. I could possibly even do it without slash, but that would be a real shame.

How they got there I currently have no idea, but that's secondary. Too many alternate universe fics have made me immune.

Anyway, damn you. It's only a drabble right now, but it clearly has a history.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

My immediate reaction is them set against the backdrop of FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS, engaging in a big "Whiskey vs. Rum" musical number.

While I'm not a huge slash fan, could you even avoid it with those two???

andthentheymeetBubandJohnnyGoandtheyallgetdrunk

[disc-sophist.livejournal.com]

I'm taking that as a blessing on the slash. ;) I need to see Tombstone again (for the zillionth time) to get the voice down, I think. I bet I could work your musical number in with what I've got...

I'm sending this to you when I'm done. Don't wait up, but I thought I'd warn you. 'Cause yeah, the boys all need to meet up.

And finish Deadwood, damn you!!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Definitely do rewatch it.

Huzzah!!

Well, uh... erm... I... kinda gotta start watching it... once I find the discs... which are somewhere... in my pit... *hides, waits for drabble*

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Also, one story I want to do for Bub and Johnny Go is having them encounter post-zombie-apocalyptic pirates operating out of the Chesapeake Bay. I'm calling him Pissbeard the Pirate until I think of something better (Catpiss the Pirate also just came to mind).

I imagine it would have to do with the pirate forcing Johnny to marry his beautiful daughter. "Do this, lad, an' I'll give ya me daughter..." "All right!" "... in marriage." "Oh Goddamnit."

Also, I think Old Bay seasoning should be the booty. Because spices are so rare and precious in the post-zombie-apocalypse world!

So, y'know, that could be a perfect time for Jack and Doc to show up!

[disc-sophist.livejournal.com]

A tiny piece of the madness you started. I did THE JOKE to get my brain in the right place. Love it, hate it, it's my brain:
__________
"This long off the sea is makin' me nervous," Jack grumbled. Doc reached back and tossed him a fifth of Gosling's from the backseat stash and gunned the engine.

"Have another drink. I’ll even sway back and forth across the road, make a little ocean lullaby, friend. But if I have to hear about the glorious, shining, fan-fucking-tastic Black Pearl one more time, I shall heave you into the nearest duck pond and ride on without regret."

Jack chuckled and took a deep pull from the bottle. A horrible thought occurred to him. "But what about -", he started.

"Yes. I'd take the rum."

"You're a cruel man, Holliday."

"So they tell me, Jack. But all I ever asked for was a decent bottle, a fuck, and a royal straight flush. Doesn't seem like too much to ask, but here I am, still waiting for the good lord's grace."

"As am I, Doc. As am I. In the meantime, I’m content to petition a lower authority."
____________

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

...

Should you ever see fit to continue this, I shall read it. Oh yes, yes I shall.

So I think if I ever do write "Bub and Johnny in an Adventure with PIRATES!" I shall need some story help and ideas from you and thirdbase. Over rum

I think Bub and Johnny should be saved by a drunken, mincing, gun-slinging, consumptive pirate dentist. How's that sound?

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

By the way, know that I read this aloud in character voices (making sure to give Doc that drunken Johnny Reb drawl).

[kmousie.livejournal.com]

This was absolutely brilliant. Thanks for sharing!