We made our choice. No choice. No choice at all.

[thehefner]

So I've gone ahead and reposted what I consider to be the definitive Harvey Dent story (click here to read it for yourself), which is not only one of my personal favorite comics of all time but also both the major source for and impetus behind the Harvey Dent novel I'm writing.

I showed it to Bloo back when we were together in 2006, and while she liked it a lot, she wanted more. So many things needed fleshing out, particularly his father and Gilda, and thus this mad, mad project began. But even after all these years and even after two drafts of the Harvey Dent novel, I can still read "Eye of the Beholder" and feel inspired, moved, and chilled. Especially at that last page. God, it's just so heartbreaking and brutal.

Also, the Neal Adams cover is bloody awesome:



So, yeah, anyone with even a passing interest in (or curiosity about) Harvey Dent should absolutely check out the above link.

Interestingly, my post coincides with two new tidbits from THE DARK KNIGHT's stellar viral marketing. The first, as cable viewers may already be aware, is first of a series of weekly eight-minute episodes of everyone's favorite news program, GOTHAM TONIGHT, with Mike Engel (AKA Anthony Michael Hall). Well, now we know what Farmer Ted's secretive role in the film is gonna be. Definitely a fun little mini-film. Here's hoping they actually get Aaron Eckhart for one of the future episodes.

Secondly, well, it's awfully close to spoilery but juuuuuust out of focus enough to remain safe, so it's more like a hint of a spoiler, and as those who know me, this is a spoiler that I personally do NOT want to be spoiled on... but for those inclined, I offer you this officially-released thirty-second clip from THE DARK KNIGHT, simply entitled, "Half."

That... that's enough. I don't want to see any more until July 18th. No more, no leaked pictures, no spoilers, nothing. But that clip...? I think I just came in my mouth a little.

(Incidentally, I'm amused at the handful of people on aintitcool.com who were disappointed because when they heard "Dent" they immediately thought it was some HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY news. Now they feel MY pain from when that film came out.)

Comments

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

The clip is so freaking awesome. I'm salivating.

Going to check out that comic now.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Sweet! Do let me know what you think. It is to me what certain Joker comics are for you. Also, I almost called it "the closest thing Two-Face has to a KILLING JOKE," in an attempt to succinctly get across the import of the story, but resisted after your recent posts.

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

rofles! please don't hold back on my account *feels somewhat guilty*

I'm enjoying it muchly so far!

[fragmentedsky.livejournal.com]

...you know, I saw that clip either yesterday or the day before. I think more by accident than anything else, I don't even remember where I saw it.

I really enjoyed the Dent comic. It made me wish I had the whole thing, simply for a sense of completeness and flow. I'll have to go back and read it when it's not 1:30 in the morning.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Ha, don't feel even somewhat guilty. You just reminded me that even the Killing Joke is no Killing Joke, and everyone else needs to keep that in mind as well.

Excellent, excellent!

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

"even the Killing Joke is no Killing Joke"

quoted for truth, as the newest net slang I've picked up goes.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Eh, next time we hang out (and we WILL... in early July sometime), I'll bring it along and you can fill in the gaps. I can just sit and wait patiently while you read, perhaps fixing a drink or doing whatever to pass the time.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I think I was the one (or one of the ones) who actually said that, for you spoke wisdom regarding the Joker, as you usually do. Egads, it's all coming full circle!

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

you did! and within 24 hours someone else said it to me. and then I was all like, man. these things spread fast!

I'm glad you liked my rant. I always worry I'm being too... aggressive in my thoughts.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'd be a hypocrite if I looked down on you for being passionate. Especially when you have knowledge to back up your arguments. But I wouldn't look down on 'em anyway, particularly as so far I completely agree with you.

Once I get on the Gilda megapost, you'll certainly be seeing a bit more of my own rant-iness poking through, rest assured. But then, I'm just gonna have to further restrain myself because of how much development and thought I've put into the novel's version of Gilda, far more so than any writers have done so far. As Bloo's said, once I get Gilda nailed down, I've nailed the book.

Egads, now I'm just rambling. I think bedtime is in order soon.

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

not at all. I think your observations touch on the reality of the female love interest often being not much more than a prop to the story. The attitude often being we don't need to know about her,we just need to know she looooooooooooves our protagonist.
As you note, it's infuriating and frustrating.

Well, get posting, boy! I'd like to see more on s_d than squeeing over slash pairings and irrational hatred to my Mistah J. (Nothing wrong with the first one, I just want to see more intellectual discourse on comics too, but the second should be outlawed!!)
I'm still debating whether or not to post my H&I rant.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Totally, that's absolutely the problem with how Gilda's been depicted over the years! And on top of all that, I could (and will) make the argument that her use in LONG HALLOWEEN was comparable to Jean being the killer in IDENTITY CRISIS. "Oh, I did it so my husband could have more tiiiiime for meeee." It's bloody insulting.

That post'll have to wait until early July, methinks. I'll be out of town for a week starting Thursday. But keep an eye out for it when it comes!

Yeah, s_d is sadly lacking with the intellectual discourse, but it's awesome when it actually happens. You can tell there are others who love it too; when a smart entry is posted, people go, "Wow, this was intelligent and well-done, thank you!"

I'd say go for the Harley and Ivy post. Or maybe do what I'm kinda doing and don't tackle it all head-on, but rather spread it out over a serious of posts. I came very close to doing a whole post expressly ranting about LONG HALLOWEEN, but what I'm doing instead is less aggressively ranty and easier to swallow. But then, I don't know exactly what you'd say, so maybe an all-out single post might be the way to go. Hrm. I'd certainly like to see it.

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

very true, some of the awesome posts are made of awesome.

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

Me, I'm just pointing out it's an abusive ship and people are DELUDED.

I wrote briefly on the relationship here:
http://www.harley-quinn.com/ivy/index.php

It is insulting. And sexist. Though watch out for crucifixtion when you point that out!

[beanie-platypus.livejournal.com]

once I get Gilda nailed down, I've nailed the book.

The girlfriends never get enough authorly love in some canons. One of my favorite comic-book-novels is Diane Duane's "Venom Factor" trilogy. She makes Mary Jane Watson a character in her own right, and understanding her makes the book *work* in ways it would not if she were just the cardboard cut-out "love interest". (Not a Gilda note, not even a DC note, but just a "women rock when written properly" note.)

Duane created one of my favorite little character moments: Mary Jane glaring across her kitchen table at Venom over a sandwich and coke, and being too well-mannered to start eating in front of him when he's not eating. Never mind that he broke into her house and is waiting to kill her husband, the lady's got standards! It doesn't matter much for the book's plot, but it just sort of perfectly encapsulates both characters: Venom's a slobbery stalker intruding in their lives, and MJ's a lady with class. :D

[beanie-platypus.livejournal.com]

üüüüüüüüüü.

Okay, that clips just several flavors of awesome right there. That is... just a very great *tone* to hit with Harvey and the scarring. I'm hoping they don't ruin it by immediately switching to

Thunder: *flashes*
Harvey's face: *illuminated like a monster of the week flick*
Audience: *Shocked and then bored*

But just eeeeeeasing around the side, nice and slow, pulling back out a little.... *shivers*

Yeah, at this point I'm likely over-thinking it, but that is one lovely snippet of cinema.

The more you talk about Harvey, the more I want to see this novel.

I'm pretty sure...

[american-arcane.livejournal.com]

...I remember seeing that comic on the shelves back in '90. Reading through it now and what you posted almost makes me wish I had been up on DC comics back then. (But I was a Marvel fan... mainly because of the more stable continuity they had.)

I have to say, I appreciate the more complex villains (another reason I fell into the Marvel mutant camp back in the 80s and 90s)... and they seem to have nailed the complexities of Dent in this issue. Kinda sucks that they had to go and change it up later... but DC always seemed to do that.

Come to think of it, are there any comic book properties that don't just screw their continuity these days?

[jackolantern.livejournal.com]

I'm interested in reading your take on Killing Joke--link please?

Re: I'm pretty sure...

[jackolantern.livejournal.com]

Spider-Girl.

[jackolantern.livejournal.com]

That was quite an awesome story; thanks for posting it.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

No, no, you're not overthinking it, I know what you mean. Makes me think of the bad guy's reveal in ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST:



That shot was specifically designed to make the audience go, "OH HOLY FUCK IT'S HENRY FUCKING FONDA!" That's the kinda reveal I'd like.

As for the novel, awesome! Once everything here settles down in a month or two, I'm gonna get back to work revising the book. I'd definitely love your thoughts down the line!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Love, love the icon.

Yeah, the girlfriends/wives are so often just props for the male characters. Bad enough that so many comics treat even their main characters with superficiality, but the supporting characters (especially the female ones and the ever-troubled role of "love interest") so often get the shaft.

That actually does sound like a great little character moment. MJ is pretty much the biggest example (either MJ or Lois Lane) of a character that has constantly been tossed back and forth between being a fully-fleshed-out character in her own right and a two-dimensional foil for the hero, depending on the writer.

Re: I'm pretty sure...

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Agreed on the complexity, it's key. I think the most important thing in superhero stories in any format--even more important than awesome action scenes--is character. Even the characters who are or just seem simplistic. I've seen people dismiss the Hulk as being one of Marvel's most one-note characters, and while the concept is simple, there is depth in that complexity. Shit, if Garth Ennis can find the depth to the frickin' Punisher, all bets are off!

As for the continuity question... at DC and Marvel, there are very few. But INVINCIBLE--the best darn superhero book coming out today, or it's certainly up there--does, but then, that's because it only has a history of a few years and only one writer. SPIDER-GIRL also has the luxury of a limited creative team.

One of these days I'm gonna do a whole post on continuity, because many people are sticklers for it and many others are vocal in their dismissal of continuity just "so long as the story's good." Ugh, yeah, I'm more sympathetic to the former group, but with reservations. But it's a big, tricky issue, and the Big Two are not doing a very good job at handling it.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Thanks for reading it!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Yeah, posting that couple be a bit of a sticky wicket. Still, I doubt most of the deluded folks really care about the characters, and it would be great to have someone set them straight. Erm, so to speak.

Just, y'know, remain respectful and don't do too much to help them put the nails in. :)

[princessebee.livejournal.com]

Sure... check out my lovedatjoker.livejournal.com blog. The most recent entry is on TKJ and if you check out lovedatjoker.livejournal.com/tag/reviews you'll find my near-to-thesis length review of it. Enjoy! ;)

[beanie-platypus.livejournal.com]

This brings up another random point of order I have with the universe: are men named Frank in fiction ever nice?

Related point: are you in fact sitting on a small mountain of digitally hoarded awesomeness to be dispensed to the masses to support? Share the love, man, share the love.

But yes- something very much like that would work very well for the first appearance of Harvey as Two-Face. Maybe we'd get that famous scene where he turns to face Gilda/Grace/Whatserface Lawyer Lady in the movie, lightning crashes, and then we see what was done to him. That, for a brief second, I could accept: the initial impact of the scarring needs to be, well, scarring. But if anyone in the world deserves *two* baddass intro shots, I think we know who that is.

Mmmmm. The promise of future fiction.... yum.

[beanie-platypus.livejournal.com]

Thanks-made it myself! Pie should be sinister. (Alas, I currently don't have the same access to photo shop to make more like this....)

The shaft or the fridge or the mind-wipe or the alien bodysnatcher... Yeah. It's a tough life being supporting cast.

I would recommend the Venom Factor books in general- they're probably a bit hard to come by in a store, but amazon has used copies selling dirt cheap and a good library loan system may yet save you. Anything by Duane is worth a look- she also did some Star Trek stuff, and of course her original series, "So you want to be a wizard..." (Which describes more of my relationship/fascination with the written and spoken word than I can really admit to without running on at the mouth.)

There's nothing wrong per se in being a foil: they're useful in a literary sense to highlight aspects of another character that would otherwise remain hidden. But they need to make sense- even if MJ or Lois were only ever shown in scenes with Peter or Clark, there needs to be an underlying understanding about why they're together, how they relate, and what that says about them both. Unless they got an arranged marriage, these two people *chose* each other for one reason or another.

Gr. I meant to write:

[beanie-platypus.livejournal.com]

Related point: are you in fact sitting on a small mountain of digitally hoarded awesomeness to be dispensed to the masses to support your ideas?

It's after midnight and I'm half-way thinking in German. No wonder I can't finish a sentence. Bah. Was willst du von mir? Ich gehe schlafen.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Nice Franks... um... hrmm... er... no. No, I don't think so.

As for the reworded inquiry of the "related point," hehe, I just happen to have a sizable comic collection, a scanner, and a lot of opinions. Especially where certain characters are concerned.

Totally, that could work. Either way, I want to hear gasps in the audience. I want my jaw to drop and, if possible, my eyes to get a little misty, just from the "oh god"-ness of it all.

As for the novel, I've had to put it off for the past few months because I needed and still need to focus on the script for my new show in July. It hasn't been easy not writing that book. As a friend of mine pointed out, the show is my wife, but the Harvey Dent novel is my hot mistress. Come late July, once I have the free time, I'm so gonna dive back in headlong. Based on what I know off-hand that I want to revise/cut/incorporate, I imagine the new draft will be ready in the Fall sometime. When it is, I will be more than happy to send it along, thank you!

Ultimately, I dream of having it be a combination of prose, illustration, and comic, like Posy Simmons' GEMMA BOVARY, but we'll see...

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Even when sinister, though, it should be noted that pie is always awesome.

I read Duane's OCTOPUS AGENDA book waaaaaay back in the day, so I do know she's good. If I can track down the Venom factor, I'll give it a go, even though I'm not a fan of the character. Then again, I always say "There are no bad characters, just bad writers," and Duane sure doesn't seem to be one of the latter.

Similarly, I hear the SINISTER SIX books are great. As I love badass Doc Ock, I'm gonna need to track those down.

Yeah, word to all that you say about foils. It's the sort of thing that I never really thought about myself until I started working on this book, and it's so vital when dealing with characters in relationships in an emotionally realistic manner. And even when comics defy all laws of physics and science, emotionally the characters need to be grounded.

[lovedatjoker.livejournal.com]

yeah people seem only to care about the PRETI LESBYANISM.

Drives me NUTS. They ignore the crucial elements of BOTH characters.