A Rare Political Post (Mosty Other People's Videos)

[thehefner]

I usually keep my damn trap shut when it comes to politics. I enjoy reading (but not commenting on) the political thoughts of folks here, particularly interdisciple, tompurdue, pokeyburro, dryponder, box_in_the_box, and madmoisellestar*. Ever since Sarah Palin came onto the scene, I've been checking ontd_political on a near-hourly basis, even though I suspect it's not good for the ol' blood pressure.

Yet all the same, I keep my damn trap shut. Most of my beliefs are being better said by more passionate and eloquent individuals, and the last time I made the mistake of discussing one of the others, it ended up... well, let's just say "badly." It got better! But still, a potent reminder of why I snap my yap.

But a couple videos have come to my attention. One is from the best kept secret in Late Night, Craig Furgeson. Why the hell don't I watch him every night? From a sheer monologuist's standpoint, he's one of my heroes. The dude's a brilliant tangentist (we deserve a title), hilarious but always seeming open and honest and not afraid to go serious and make it work. His monologue about the death of his father was particularly powerful, and his Britney Spears monologue (where he discussed his dark alcoholic past) was fantastic. This is from last night.

"If you don't vote, you're a moron."

Damn straight.

What's really sad is if the major news networks were successful in trying to be the Daily Show, we'd be seeing shit like this on the actual news rather than on some comedy show:

I love the Daily Show, I watch it every time, but they haven't been that scathing and dead-on in a long time. Or at least, not often enough. With videos like the following, I wonder if I'll have to check out the Onion's videos for my more hardcore political satire.

"Portrayal Of Obama As Elitist Hailed As Step Forward For African Americans."

Portrayal Of Obama As Elitist Hailed As Step Forward For African Americans

Magnificent.

Okay, back to talking about the Harvey Dent Monologues (or whatever this blog is about) before the arguments start.



*Who made the single best comment I've ever heard on spiteful Hillary voters threatening to vote for McCain over Obama: "It's like you started looking to buy a new car, and you were thinking Hybrid. You decided you wanted the Prius, but only the Fit was in stock near you, so what do you do? Fuck it, you're gettin' an Escalade. That'll show them."

Comments

[angrylemur.livejournal.com]

I try - and very often fail - to not get too into political debate myself, too. But I think it's important that we speak up about things that we believe strongly in.

Even when it's not easy to do. There are times when you just have to speak what's in your heart, because it's important.


Fuuuuck I sound like an after-school special. I am blushing for shame, I truly am.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I'm just so deep-set in my aversion to rocking the boat and causing any conflicts that I'm afraid to start anything for fear that someone will come along and point out how I'm wrong.

I used to really like McCain back in the day and even made some mentions here, but when they thoughts were refuted by people rightly showing how McCain was selling his soul by inches, that kind of shut me up altogether. What's more, I always feel like--between people's personal passions, my lack of political understanding, and the THANK YOU FOR SMOKING manta of "If you argue correctly, you're never wrong"--I always felt outmatched and unable to defend my beliefs when it came to discussion.

But you're right, it is absolutely important. We all need more discourse, not less.

[mirthical.livejournal.com]

and now Bob Saget has to bend down and hug you, I think.

the problem I have with political debate is that it's so rarely an actual debate. most frequently, it's some perfectly normal dude who suddenly morphs into a self-righteous jerkwad and tells you you're an idiot for thinking differently from him. so not only are you having an argument instead of a debate, it's an argument where you're called stupid.

I suspect even a hint of my true political colors (and for those wondering, irascible centrist) would get me thrown out of my office. and I'm only kind of joking.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Why would Bob Saget do with the thing what?

EDIT: Oh, you were replying to her, I get it, hahaha.

You're absolutely right, man (lady). Actual debate is far too rare in favor of people just ranting or snarking or trying to impose their beliefs on others. It's an argument where you're called stupid, exactly.

Even though my stepfather has some wacky political ideas (he's more into political theory than actual political values, it seems to me), with him I know I can at least get a real discussion of sorts.

No, I know what you mean. I have a couple beliefs that I've been (mostly but not entirely unreasonably) afraid would put me on the outs with a couple friends.

[rosered2318.livejournal.com]

This is an excellent post

[jellied.livejournal.com]

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Thankya! Good, I was antsy even pulling *this* together.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

MATT DAMON!

What's really scary is how that's not even the most infuriating and scary shit about her. But I ain't goin' into that minefield.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

The republic is in the crapper and you're worried about being nice on the Internet? FOR SHAME, HEFNER.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

No, I'm worried about not being hurt and being told I'm wrong... on the internet. People can argue rings around me when it comes to politics, any politics, so I keep it private. Besides, for the vast majority of my beliefs, it'd be preaching to the choir here. I don't have any insights that others I know don't have... uh... better. So I stick to what I'm good at.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't you want to know if you were actually wrong, though?

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Yes intellectually, no emotionally. I don't like to be wrong, ever. I'm terrified of making mistakes, especially in front of my friends and the people I respect. I overreact, I know, but I still can't shake that feeling. It can ruin my whole day. It's one thing to have one friend tell me I'm wrong in private, something else entirely to be wrong before everyone here.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Well, that's me told.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Told? I really wasn't trying to tell you or anything, I'm just... that's how I feel. I don't want the world sugarcoated, I don't want flattery or softballing, because if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and like I said, I don't want to be wrong. But I'm just incredibly sensitive. I'm not thin-skinned, I'm no-skinned.

And when it comes to political discussion, I don't have a chance when it comes to the people I know. Best I can do, I feel, is to just listen to as many points of view as I can and privately figure things out for myself.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Nah, it's cool--it's just totally counter to how I do things. (I'm seriously considering a career in politics now, so.) I figure people have hated me my whole life, so why stop them now?

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Whew, okay.

Really? In what capacity?

People hate you? Well, you are smart and snarky, and lord knows certain people don't like that.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

They hate me, but I hate 'em back, so it's all good.

I was thinking maybe Senator? XD

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

A US Senator who does comics about gay Commies and Cowboys? Fuck, I'd vote for you!

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

No you wouldn't, I'd run in CT XD.

Are you watching this Palin thing?

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

No, I'm gonna wait for it to hit ontd_political so I can get the responses to it as well. I need to get my news instantly cut with human reaction to try and cut through the bullcrap and help me understand what I'm seeing.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

(Moved this over because it was hard to read.)

My dear friend, you do not need anyone to tell you what you are seeing in this video. I assure you. You, as an actor, will know better than most.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

It's not on any of the news networks. Is it an interview or something? I'm sure it'll pop up as a video soon.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

OH HEFFIE.

Palin is giving an exclusive interview to Charlie Gibson of ABC News; the first segment just aired on ABC's evening news, the second will be on Nightline tonight, and the third and fourth parts will be shown tomorrow at the same times. I haven't seen video of the first part yet, but here's an excerpt.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Ha-ha, I'm hilariously inept! THAT'S OUR HEFFIE!

Aye, I'm looking over the excerpt now. Oh goodie, hints that we may have to attack Russia, that's... well, that's just... super.

"If You're A Moron, Don't Vote!"

[adaptor.livejournal.com]

Personally, I might've reworded it a little. ;-)

Re: "If You're A Moron, Don't Vote!"

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

There's that too. But do you really wanna contradict a wild Scotsman?

[pokeyburro.livejournal.com]

Having seen that footage, I think Matt Damon needs to put more stress on the fact that this is his opinion, based on simply not knowing about Palin. I suspect he's not telling the whole truth, either. He probably doesn't know enough about Obama to be sure how he would do against Putin. If I were in his shoes, I'd be unsure about both, based on what I've heard. I'm really not worried about who has nuclear codes, personally - it's not like we'll launch just because Palin has a bad day - but knowing when dinosaurs walked the earth isn't going to imply you know how to stare down a foreign leader, either.

[pokeyburro.livejournal.com]

Here's how I go about it.

1: Assume the other guy is smart. No one ever ever ever ever ever ever ever... ever... ever persuaded anyone to change their opinion if they felt it was worth holding on to past one counterargument.

2: Write/talk about what you know. Same tip they give to writers. You obviously already know this. (See? I'm assuming you're smart.) Thing is, you know what you believe, so you can definitely talk about that. I see no problem whatsoever with anyone giving a political opinion, provided they've documented it as such, and are aware it's an opinion as they deliver it.

3: Know logic. This takes some experience. Some of it's basic stuff anyone would know if they know math - if you know X, and you know X implies Y, then you can conclude X, etc. Some of it's knowing the various rhetorical tricks to avoid - non sequiturs, ad hominems, post hoc ergo propter hoc, veni vidi vichy, and several other Latin phrases I'm told are a sign of intellect.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Good points all around.

I absolutely do # 1, if only because I don't like to think any person I'm dealing with face to face is stupid. I really don't like thinking that at all, even if I might think it in the abstract. As such, I sometimes find myself trying to have reasonable, measured discussions that are the equivalent of bashing my head into a wall in a very civil and intellectual manner.

The logic thing is where it gets tricky. I say again, the thing that hangs over my head is "If you argue correctly, you're never wrong." My stepfather, the political theorist who's far more interested in the game than the actual issues, is a master at this. We like to say he's often incorrect but never wrong. Logic is entirely irrelevant with that old lawyer.

Combine that with the fact that I was raised to constantly doubt my own feelings, thoughts, and convictions, and the situation gets even more intimidating whenever politics are discussed.

[pokeyburro.livejournal.com]

I could expand on stupidity (ahem) a bit, I think. My working theory is that everyone is smart when they're at their best; but no one is at their best, all the time. Rational thought consumes a lot of calories, and if everyone did it all the time, everyone would have to eat a lot more often. We don't, and so there are times when we get tired, focus wanders or evaporates, and that's when the ads grab us, and next thing we know, we're renting Crossroads at the DVD store and wondering how in the hell we got there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by logic with respect to your stepfather, so I'll let that be until I have more time to think about it.

Meanwhile, your self-doubts make you precisely the type of person I would want to listen to, provided you make the effort to print all the factors in your decisions as completely as time and comfort allowed. Well, not just your self-doubts, and I'm not the only one. My feeling is that self-doubt coupled with awareness of your motives makes for a compelling combination.

Enumerate all the doubts and motivations, and chances are high that everyone sympathizes with all of it, if not to exactly the same degrees. For example, no one likes to be forced to pay for the negligence of someone they don't know; however, no one likes to see someone else fall on hard times that they'll never recover from. The stronger you feel about the former, the more you might oppose bailing out bad loan managers; the stronger you feel about the latter, the more you might favor federal relief for managers who didn't know what they were getting into.

At that point, you've utterly stopped being an adversary. Conversation can actually take place. It is possible to take advantage of this position, by subtlely pointing out evidence supporting only one side or the other. However, if you take this stand toward discussion consciously, it is also likely that you'll be more sensitive to manipulation. ...Well, most of the time. Like I said, it burns a lot of food. I hear judo does the same thing.

As far as politics goes, I really do think it's not so terrible to recuse yourself. It is rarely the case that one election makes all the difference, as much as all of the press you see might make you think otherwise. Remember, they're trying to grab eyeballs, too.