On BATMAN and Broadway: two great tastes that apparently never go together

[thehefner]

Coming at this a week late, but whatever...

Everything about the much-publicized musical episode of BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD--starring Neil Patrick Harris!!!--should have resulted in an utterly delightful episode tailor-made for the showtune-loving-superhero-fan in me.

Henchgirl and I were giddy at the prospect, squealing with glee when Black Manta pirouetted in the first couple minutes. But then it was all downhill from there. The story, and everything involving Black Canary* was bad enough, but what really did it were the songs.Oh god, I hated the songs. Hated them. They were like every lame showtune that comes on the Broadway radio channel, the kind Henchgirl and I listen to for about a minute before going, "Wow, this sucks," and changing the station.

Then again, we have particular tastes when it comes to showtunes. Henchgirl summed up our dislike of the episode by saying, "Well, we live in a post-WICKED world." Which is to say, neither of us have actually seen WICKED, but every time we hear one of the songs on Broadway radio (and I make it a point to listen to them all the way through), we're just shocked by how much we hate them.

Blasphemy, I know. I tried to give it a shot, I really did! Henchgirl always wanted to change the station, but I said, "No, we need to listen to this all the way through to give it a fair shot!" And maybe, maybe it all works better in context, so perhaps I need to actually see WICKED on stage to judge it properly. Still, you should have seen my face as we listened to "For Good" and "Defying Gravity." I'm told that my contorted look of disgust was pretty epic. Henchgirl says, "It looked like you were melting. It was amazing."

So maybe TB&TB's musical episode was actually "good" in the sense that it successfully tapped into the kind of popular musical like your WICKEDs, your RENTs, your LES MISERABLES/MISS SAIGONs, and--of course--your Webbers (pretty much all Andrew Lloyd Webber, save for JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR). You know, the musicals I hate.

But me, I was hoping for a different kind of musical style to ape. I'm not asking for Kander & Ebb or Sondheim,** but good lord, with NPH in tow, I was at least hoping for a Bat-flavored DR. HORRIBLE. And this is ME talking! The Joss Anti-Fan! I disliked BUFFY, yet the BUFFY musical episode was enough to hook me into the series! Why couldn't we have that kind of quality for BATMAN, even if it's just the "kid-friendly" version?

Really, the only song that I found even decently enjoyable is this one. And even then, it's mainly for the cameos.

But hey, it could have been worse. At least it wasn't the aborted Tim Burton BATMAN musical by Jim Steinman. I don't know if even the delightfulness of NPH could have pulled off songs like this:

Not that I wouldn't pay good money to hear Mark Hamill try. For a minute.




*The prospect of a Black Canary voiced by Grey DeLisle--and looking like Veronica Lake drawn by Darwyn Cooke--should have been far, far more wonderful than what we actually got: a lame "I love Batman" motivation, a series of dry "Will he ever love me?"songs, and a fickle inexplicable turnaround to loving Ollie (like she should have done all along).

**I just showed Henchgirl SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE (after already showing her INTO THE WOODS and the Hearn/Lansbury SWEENEY TODD, which is the *only* SWEENEY TODD in our estimation) and spent 2/5ths of the film sobbing. God, it's getting worse. I just need to hear three specific notes to make me burst into tears.

I don't know what the hell it is about this damn musical that affects me so. Henchgirl says it's because it's about the struggle of being an artist. Makes sense, but I don't see why that should be any reason I ought to get misty every time I hear Bernadette Peters sing.

Comments

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

For me, Webber's only acceptable musical was Cats. Because he didn't write the lyrics or the story derived therefrom. His music is pretty much throwing darts at a musical staff, though (as one of my high school friends put it).

I like Scarlet Pimpernel (even though I have, admittedly, only heard it, not seen it), Beauty and the Beast, and I used to like Jekyll and Hyde but now I think it's LAME. I was morbidly curious about the Lestat musical, just for the lol factor. Nightmare Before Christmas is one of the best, and most of the Disney renaissance films are great musicals as well. I just like Disney musicals in general. I have high hopes for Frog, because one of the animators is on my flist and reports a simply stellar villain song (do not go looking for clips of the film on the net, she says, because that will spoil everything. Just a warning).

I have a few languages for villain songs, that make them sound amazing. I'll put them down because hell, why not?

Poor Unfortunate Souls - Italian
Jafar's Reprise of Prince Ali - Russian
Gaston - French
Be Prepared - German
Hellfire - Spanish (Castillian)

We've tested all of these, and it's seriously better than the original English, in most cases (not that the English isn't amazing, but the various cultures work better for the villains, and thus you get a sense that the voice actors grok the villain's character a lot better).

I've also seen the Kevin Kline version of Pirates of Penzance, and it's fucking hilarious, man. Hilarious. I want to see Threepenny Opera. Other classics are A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, and How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying. As you can see, I generally like comedies. Drama usually has romance, an I'm allergic to most romance. It gives me hives.

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

Also: the first video is broken, and the second song is so cheesy it's WONDERFUL. WONDERFUL. It should be shorter, but it's fabulous.

God, if only. *thinks of the costumes* Nnngh.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Fixed, hopefully!

And OH GOD NO. GAHH. I know I can always turn to that if I ever need to torture my Henchgirl.

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

See, I am a fan of horrible things. Horrible, cheesy, horrible things. I think it helps people not take life so seriously.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Henchgirl is slowly familiarizing me with Disney's songs of yore. I only had a passing knowledge of them before her (although ROBIN HOOD is still my favorite), but now I've found myself going into at least two Disney Stores!

Kline's PIRATES is indeed fucking hilarious. I love it so. And oh, I've been wanting to have the Joker do a version of "A Comedy Tonight" for... well, a couple days now.

Ever seen SWEENEY TODD? By which I mean, the good version with Angela Lansbury and George Hearn? It's utter magnificence, and I think would appeal to you on a number of levels.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

I thought Canary ending up with Arrow was hilarious, in that they both want Batman so badly and are stuck with settling for each other as a sort of mutal Batman cosplay society. It's kind of deliciously pathetic.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Viewed that way, I can almost care! ...Wow, that sounded way more snarky and mean than I intended.

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

Oh of course I've seen it. Well, not seen it. Heard it. I bought myself the original cast album waaaay early when Sweeney movie was being hyped. I fell in love with Angela's performance, and to date my only issue with the film (and indeed the reason I am disappointed in Burton's recent films) is that the four leads were not strong enough singers to carry the scope of a Sondheim musical. Alan Rickman, Timothy Spall, and Sacha Cohen were incredibly strong and wonderful, but Depp, Carter, and the two unknowns were weak and breathy across the board. Disappointing that Burton will only cast his favourites. However, the actual musical of Sweeney Todd is just too depressing for me to actually attach to it as a favourite musical. It's a good musical, and I love the music--I just can't watch it unless I'm in just the right mood.

Overall, I'd watch the Sweeney Todd film the way I prefer to watch the Phantom of the Opera movie--on mute. They're pretty too look at and get costuming ideas from, but not much else.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

The only Batman: BATB character you should care about is Platelet.

Have you thoughts about season 4 of the Venture Bros.? This latest episode is extremely relevant to Batman cartoons!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Oooh, oh nonono! The original cast soundtrack has Lansbury, but she's only one half of the filmed version's awesomeness, because Original!Sweeney Len Cariou absolutely pales in comparison to George Hearn.

Wait, way back when we first started chatting, I showed you this, didn't I?



Oh man, this film is so wonderful. I showed it to Henchgirl and she absolutely fell in love with it, and this version above all others. Heck, for most of the musical, we find it so delightfully macabe and upbeat, even with the tragic ending! We see them as a Victorian Harley and Joker!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

... Platelet? I think I missed that one, but still feel delighted somehow.

I'm digging the season so far, but nothing's really blown me away just yet. The Captain Sunshine episode was hilarious (once I got past how disturbing it was, hoping I would still be able to enjoy the animated Batman series), and I need to see it a second time.

I had forgotten, until someone has pointed it out, that there had been two Captain Sunshine references in Seasons 1 and 3 respectively. Between that and Sphinx, Doc and Jackson are amazing at following through on their universe. It's like they're their own fanfic writers!

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this all feels like world-building--though I did really love the Monarch in Wonderboy's outfit. Where do you stand on the whole "Cap is a pedophile--no, not really" controversy?

Platelet comes from "Journey to the Center of the Bat," which features Aquaman and the Atom messing around in Batman's innards. It is my favorite episode and thus the one I feel you should watch next. (It was way better than the musical episode. Trust me on this.)

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I keep finding there are two distinct kinds of VB fans: the ones who love the world-building, and the ones who just want more crazy funny shit with pop culture references. I am increasingly annoyed by the latter. Just stick to FAMILY GUY, folks.

I'm not sure where to stand, honestly. I think it was pretty blatant, unless they were trying to do like HARVEY BIRDMAN where Peanut started getting his "powers," treating the entire thing as a metaphor. That's the way I'd prefer to see it, rather than it being explicitly pedophilia.

But even then, the whole premise was kinda... well, obvious and lazy. I mean, that stuff's been around since the 50's with Wertham, and probably even before that. But I liked the way they pulled it off, between Cap's seemingly genuine affection for Hank (compounded with his own deep-seated crazy issues), Conroy's performance (I'm so glad he went far, far beyond just a Batman voice), and all the "Not another one" moments.

Then rest assured, sometime in the next day or so, I'll curl up with Henchgirl and check out "Journey to the Center of the Bat." Because I've only seen a few B:TB&TB, but when it's good, it's great. How was the Booster episode? I'm glad they brought the JLU voices back!

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Well, this is not to say that I don't want VB to turn into Family Guy (ugh); I just want them to move forward on whatever plots they have planned for this season. Preferably while sticking more pouches and stubble on 21.

There's a sizable number of people who think that Cap'n wasn't actually a pedophile, but rather a broken man who wanted to have a father-son type relationship with his sidekicks (who, sadly, kept getting killed by men dressed as butterflies and, presumably, clowns). This makes the pedo stuff a little less obvious, but I don't see why the two are at all mutually exclusive. I guess I'm a Philistine at heart.

I never finished the Booster episode! What I saw I loved, but I had to run out of the house before it was over with. I did really enjoy the episode with Ted-Beetle, of course. Basically if it has Plas or Red Tornado in it, I loved it. There's also a pretty fun episode with G'Nort, Sinestro and Guy working together to save the whole of the Corps (with Bat-assist). I never thought I would think Sinestro is cool XD, but they showed me!

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, I felt it was my duty as a fellow artist/storyteller to insist that you watch Transformers 2 at your earliest convenience. It is a triumph of the crapmaker's art. I am not exaggerating when I say that it has replaced Plan 9 from Outer Space as the crappiest film of all time. I promise!

[kiffie.livejournal.com]

Just stopping by here to say, hello fellow Pimpy fan. :3

[kiffie.livejournal.com]

Ah, someone else who isn't all googly-eyed over Wicked.

I don't hate it (I find it very, very hard to hate music of any kind), but whenever I hear "Defying Gravity," my eyes sort of cross and I blank out until the song is over. I don't think this was the intent of the songwriter.

And I admit that I, too, was expecting something entirely different from Batman. Indeed, something like Dr. Horrible, especially since NPH was on-board. Instead, it felt... cheap? I'm not sure if that's the right word. The cartoon is rather shallow, to begin with-- it's a kiddie show, after all, and harmless in an endearing sort of way --but they're usually more witty. *shrugs*

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

One of my very favorite episodes was Billy Quizboy's origin backstory. I thought it added a lot of heart and depth to him, and was integral in enriching the universe as a whole. But many people at the time hated it, thinking it was a waste of time, that the show was getting too wankily bogged down in its own backstory rather than actually advancing anything. Now that episode's been proven to have been integral for having introduced S.P.H.I.N.X. and Shore Leave! So feh on those idiot fans.

Oh, I loved that episode. It even made G'Nort enjoyable! Ish!

I know you're not the biggest Geoff Johns fan, but one of the most remarkable things he's accomplished is actually making Sinestro (of all characters) into one of the most badass, compelling, and formidable opponents in comics today. It's thanks to him that we have cool Sinestro in things like that episode and the GL animated movie!

Now if only we could finally get Hal to be interesting and cool again, we'll be golden...

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Too many people I know love it to allow me to dismiss it entirely without actually seeing the bloody thing. But guh, it's like every... frickin'... song... is like Broadway for the AMERICAN IDOL generation. Plus, I have little tolerance for those "Everything you know about that beloved story is WRONG!" stories unless they do something really profound with it, preferably in a way that makes one appreciate the original all the more, like John Gardner's GRENDEL.

Yeah, I know the show's budget could limit the quality of the music, but that shouldn't hamper the quality of the lyrics! Maybe they should have gotten someone with actual wit, like Paul Dini (whose Bat-Mite episode is still one of the highlights of that entire series so far).

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I will do so with my Henchgirl (against her will, she's fighting me!), armed with a full case of Natty Boh. How can we make a drinking game of it! And we will be dead.

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, you're definitely alone in thinking Hearn > Cariou. I don't know ANYONE who thinks that, including the cast.

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

Oh, should have specified--the BURTON film on mute, not the filmed stage production.

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

La!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Not alone! Henchgirl thinks so too!

How can anyone possibly think Cariou is superior? The guy sounds positively bored and one-note through the entire thing, whereas Hearn is burning, passionate, alive! I can't help but suspect many people are just stubbornly clinging to the notion that original=best.

[gnort.livejournal.com]

What are you talking about? G'nort's always enjoyable.

I enjoyed the episode. A few of the songs fell flat, but Aquaman danced with Grodd so it still comes out in positive.

Had they more time, they probably could've handled the "love" aspect better, but they did only have 20 minutes. That said, the duet at the end made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside so it didn't completely fail in my opinion.

[kagome654.livejournal.com]

You don't like LES MISERABLES?

...I'm afraid you and I are no longer on speaking terms.

[torberg.livejournal.com]

I don't necessarily think original=best. That being said, I agree that Hearn is a better actor for the role. I think Cariou is a better singer, however.

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

Actually, that episode is more important to the plot of season 3 than you think; tonally it establishes that the theme of the season is going to be betrayal by those closest to you, brutal whether deliberate or not. (There was a reason they told that story when they did, after all.) I really loved what they did with S3, and I hope they can pull off the same sort of thing in S4.

Also, Sinestro was not badass by my reckoning because of his character, but because of his actor. I forgot who it was, but that dude nailed that performance (and had the best voice ever, yes).

B-but Hal is the greatest Green Lantern ever! Don't you read the dialogue boxes?

[heykidzcomix.livejournal.com]

I recommend taking it straight and stone-cold sober the first time. After you have truly experienced it in its entirety, you can start to cut the effect by adding Rifftrax and booze. Trust me on this, you will want to be clear-headed for this "film."

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't think that at all. Cariou has the perfect tortured feel, and his laugh, omg, is so brilliant and perfect. He doesn't sound monotone at all. Hearn doesn't have the same power of voice, really.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Nooooooooooooo! But you're one of my favorite comic-type people! I need you, especially since you-know-who has seemingly infested scans-daily! Surely there's some common ground we can has?

If it helps, I do love "Master of the House." but only that

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Good way to look at it. Hearn doesn't sound like the classically trained singer that Cariou is. And yet, Cariou doesn't carry the same raw bleeding emotion that Hearn does. I mean, I just compare the two versions of "Epiphany" and that's that.

Also, maybe Cariou had wonder chemistry with Lansbury, but it doesn't come off in the soundtrack, not nearly as well as the chemistry she had with Hearn. They were adorable. His Sweeney was 70% Harvey Dent with 30% Joker, with Lansbury as his Harley.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

More tortured than Hearn? I can't agree with that at all. Cariou is the better singer, certainly, but he doesn't take it to the sheer emotional heights that Hearn does. Cariou may be burning, but he's not raw and bleeding like Hearn is.

Henchgirl put it best: Cariou has the purity of voice, but Hearn has the purity of emotion, and the latter is what matters more to me when it comes to what I want from Sweeney.

Or put in comic terms, I want him more Harvey Dent than Victor Fries. ;)

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

This sounds like an experience akin to the STAR WARS CHRISTMAS SPECIAL. I don't know if I can endure this again.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Good call! And sometimes they're subtle betrayals too. Man, I do love that episode, and I love that whole season. High hopes for S4!

I think it was Xander Berkley, a character actor from the 90's. He was in some TREK, the movie CANDYMAN, and I think POISON IVY 2, the one with Alyssa Milano. Yeah, that kind of actor. I think he also voiced Hal's part in that episode!

Well of course I know that! Geoff Johns just doesn't seem to know how to communicate that fact, bless his fannish heart!

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I used to think so, but we've been revisiting the whole JLI run--Henchgirl and I, I mean--and he's just... not as endearingly enjoyable as I recall. It kills me to admit that! Maybe he fares better in "A Guy and his G'Nort." Hopefully that still holds up.

I know they only had twenty minutes. I just wish I knew why they dedicated ten of them to the love aspect bullcrap!

[kagome654.livejournal.com]

Nonono, you and me, we're done professionally.

Okay, so maybe cutting off all ties with people who don't share my taste in musicals is a little drastic. I'll stick to quietly booing you.

As far as common ground goes...I also see nothing terribly appealing about Wicked (though I do admit some fondness for 'Popular.')

Boo, boooooo! Also, boooo html fail

[mellifluous-ink.livejournal.com]

I think the coldness works for the character better, because he IS Fries, not Dent.

[gnort.livejournal.com]

Huh that's odd. From what I've read of "A Guy and his G'nort" (I'm still missing an issue) it's enjoyable. Guy and G'nort usually play off each other rather well. Though it has been awhile since I read it.

I was more bothered by the fact that Music Meister went to such great lengths, and essentially conquered the world and enslaved humanity, only to rob them. I was a bit underwhelmed by that. I was also surprised that the heroes managed to get brainwashed even after Batman gave them earpieces but you could argue MM's mooks attacked and managed to take them in some confrontation we never saw.

[kiffie.livejournal.com]

...like Broadway for the AMERICAN IDOL generation.

That is exactly it.

Are musicals now afraid to actually be musicals? I mean, it seems like they've erected a wall somewhere in the late 80s and everything that came before that doesn't count. Or, rather, they won't admit to it. (However, this has afforded me a one-up on some of my friends: I can sit and watch The Pied Piper of Hamlin, in its entirety, and find it enjoyable. My friends, who associate "musical" with "Moulin Rouge," and who are unused to such... oddness... will generally be clawing at their eyes ten minutes in.)

Further, and this is just my own rant, ignore if you like: Musicals =/= Cirque du Soleil. When they announced it a few years ago, I was semi-excited about the prospect of a LotR musical. If anything, there had to be good costumes or staging or something. Then I saw clips. Augh. No. Why.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Ahhhh, gotcha. Yeah, I disagree (or at least, I prefer to see him as more Dent-like with dashes of Joker, because I have more sympathy for such a character than one whose frozen off his emotion), but I can absolutely understand and respect that perspective.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Wait, how then do you feel about Sondheim? Or CHESS? I want to make this work!!!

[night-train-fm.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought BC's sub-plot was boring, but I could let it go if it meant having 'Drives us Bats' and 'The Music Meister' (although I find myself wishing they had given KMR more singing time).

Also, that spinning Joker icon is just hypnotic.