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thehefnerComing at this a week late, but whatever...
Everything about the much-publicized musical episode of BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD--starring Neil Patrick Harris!!!--should have resulted in an utterly delightful episode tailor-made for the showtune-loving-superhero-fan in me.
Henchgirl and I were giddy at the prospect, squealing with glee when Black Manta pirouetted in the first couple minutes. But then it was all downhill from there. The story, and everything involving Black Canary* was bad enough, but what really did it were the songs.Oh god, I hated the songs. Hated them. They were like every lame showtune that comes on the Broadway radio channel, the kind Henchgirl and I listen to for about a minute before going, "Wow, this sucks," and changing the station.
Then again, we have particular tastes when it comes to showtunes. Henchgirl summed up our dislike of the episode by saying, "Well, we live in a post-WICKED world." Which is to say, neither of us have actually seen WICKED, but every time we hear one of the songs on Broadway radio (and I make it a point to listen to them all the way through), we're just shocked by how much we hate them.
Blasphemy, I know. I tried to give it a shot, I really did! Henchgirl always wanted to change the station, but I said, "No, we need to listen to this all the way through to give it a fair shot!" And maybe, maybe it all works better in context, so perhaps I need to actually see WICKED on stage to judge it properly. Still, you should have seen my face as we listened to "For Good" and "Defying Gravity." I'm told that my contorted look of disgust was pretty epic. Henchgirl says, "It looked like you were melting. It was amazing."
So maybe TB&TB's musical episode was actually "good" in the sense that it successfully tapped into the kind of popular musical like your WICKEDs, your RENTs, your LES MISERABLES/MISS SAIGONs, and--of course--your Webbers (pretty much all Andrew Lloyd Webber, save for JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR). You know, the musicals I hate.
But me, I was hoping for a different kind of musical style to ape. I'm not asking for Kander & Ebb or Sondheim,** but good lord, with NPH in tow, I was at least hoping for a Bat-flavored DR. HORRIBLE. And this is ME talking! The Joss Anti-Fan! I disliked BUFFY, yet the BUFFY musical episode was enough to hook me into the series! Why couldn't we have that kind of quality for BATMAN, even if it's just the "kid-friendly" version?
Really, the only song that I found even decently enjoyable is this one. And even then, it's mainly for the cameos.
But hey, it could have been worse. At least it wasn't the aborted Tim Burton BATMAN musical by Jim Steinman. I don't know if even the delightfulness of NPH could have pulled off songs like this:
Not that I wouldn't pay good money to hear Mark Hamill try. For a minute.
*The prospect of a Black Canary voiced by Grey DeLisle--and looking like Veronica Lake drawn by Darwyn Cooke--should have been far, far more wonderful than what we actually got: a lame "I love Batman" motivation, a series of dry "Will he ever love me?"songs, and a fickle inexplicable turnaround to loving Ollie (like she should have done all along).
**I just showed Henchgirl SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE (after already showing her INTO THE WOODS and the Hearn/Lansbury SWEENEY TODD, which is the *only* SWEENEY TODD in our estimation) and spent 2/5ths of the film sobbing. God, it's getting worse. I just need to hear three specific notes to make me burst into tears.
I don't know what the hell it is about this damn musical that affects me so. Henchgirl says it's because it's about the struggle of being an artist. Makes sense, but I don't see why that should be any reason I ought to get misty every time I hear Bernadette Peters sing.
Everything about the much-publicized musical episode of BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD--starring Neil Patrick Harris!!!--should have resulted in an utterly delightful episode tailor-made for the showtune-loving-superhero-fan in me.
Henchgirl and I were giddy at the prospect, squealing with glee when Black Manta pirouetted in the first couple minutes. But then it was all downhill from there. The story, and everything involving Black Canary* was bad enough, but what really did it were the songs.Oh god, I hated the songs. Hated them. They were like every lame showtune that comes on the Broadway radio channel, the kind Henchgirl and I listen to for about a minute before going, "Wow, this sucks," and changing the station.
Then again, we have particular tastes when it comes to showtunes. Henchgirl summed up our dislike of the episode by saying, "Well, we live in a post-WICKED world." Which is to say, neither of us have actually seen WICKED, but every time we hear one of the songs on Broadway radio (and I make it a point to listen to them all the way through), we're just shocked by how much we hate them.
Blasphemy, I know. I tried to give it a shot, I really did! Henchgirl always wanted to change the station, but I said, "No, we need to listen to this all the way through to give it a fair shot!" And maybe, maybe it all works better in context, so perhaps I need to actually see WICKED on stage to judge it properly. Still, you should have seen my face as we listened to "For Good" and "Defying Gravity." I'm told that my contorted look of disgust was pretty epic. Henchgirl says, "It looked like you were melting. It was amazing."
So maybe TB&TB's musical episode was actually "good" in the sense that it successfully tapped into the kind of popular musical like your WICKEDs, your RENTs, your LES MISERABLES/MISS SAIGONs, and--of course--your Webbers (pretty much all Andrew Lloyd Webber, save for JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR). You know, the musicals I hate.
But me, I was hoping for a different kind of musical style to ape. I'm not asking for Kander & Ebb or Sondheim,** but good lord, with NPH in tow, I was at least hoping for a Bat-flavored DR. HORRIBLE. And this is ME talking! The Joss Anti-Fan! I disliked BUFFY, yet the BUFFY musical episode was enough to hook me into the series! Why couldn't we have that kind of quality for BATMAN, even if it's just the "kid-friendly" version?
Really, the only song that I found even decently enjoyable is this one. And even then, it's mainly for the cameos.
But hey, it could have been worse. At least it wasn't the aborted Tim Burton BATMAN musical by Jim Steinman. I don't know if even the delightfulness of NPH could have pulled off songs like this:
Not that I wouldn't pay good money to hear Mark Hamill try. For a minute.
*The prospect of a Black Canary voiced by Grey DeLisle--and looking like Veronica Lake drawn by Darwyn Cooke--should have been far, far more wonderful than what we actually got: a lame "I love Batman" motivation, a series of dry "Will he ever love me?"songs, and a fickle inexplicable turnaround to loving Ollie (like she should have done all along).
**I just showed Henchgirl SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE (after already showing her INTO THE WOODS and the Hearn/Lansbury SWEENEY TODD, which is the *only* SWEENEY TODD in our estimation) and spent 2/5ths of the film sobbing. God, it's getting worse. I just need to hear three specific notes to make me burst into tears.
I don't know what the hell it is about this damn musical that affects me so. Henchgirl says it's because it's about the struggle of being an artist. Makes sense, but I don't see why that should be any reason I ought to get misty every time I hear Bernadette Peters sing.
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no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 04:16 am (UTC)I like Scarlet Pimpernel (even though I have, admittedly, only heard it, not seen it), Beauty and the Beast, and I used to like Jekyll and Hyde but now I think it's LAME. I was morbidly curious about the Lestat musical, just for the lol factor. Nightmare Before Christmas is one of the best, and most of the Disney renaissance films are great musicals as well. I just like Disney musicals in general. I have high hopes for Frog, because one of the animators is on my flist and reports a simply stellar villain song (do not go looking for clips of the film on the net, she says, because that will spoil everything. Just a warning).
I have a few languages for villain songs, that make them sound amazing. I'll put them down because hell, why not?
Poor Unfortunate Souls - Italian
Jafar's Reprise of Prince Ali - Russian
Gaston - French
Be Prepared - German
Hellfire - Spanish (Castillian)
We've tested all of these, and it's seriously better than the original English, in most cases (not that the English isn't amazing, but the various cultures work better for the villains, and thus you get a sense that the voice actors grok the villain's character a lot better).
I've also seen the Kevin Kline version of Pirates of Penzance, and it's fucking hilarious, man. Hilarious. I want to see Threepenny Opera. Other classics are A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, and How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying. As you can see, I generally like comedies. Drama usually has romance, an I'm allergic to most romance. It gives me hives.
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Date: 2009-10-30 04:42 am (UTC)Kline's PIRATES is indeed fucking hilarious. I love it so. And oh, I've been wanting to have the Joker do a version of "A Comedy Tonight" for... well, a couple days now.
Ever seen SWEENEY TODD? By which I mean, the good version with Angela Lansbury and George Hearn? It's utter magnificence, and I think would appeal to you on a number of levels.
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Date: 2009-10-30 04:51 am (UTC)Overall, I'd watch the Sweeney Todd film the way I prefer to watch the Phantom of the Opera movie--on mute. They're pretty too look at and get costuming ideas from, but not much else.
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:00 am (UTC)Wait, way back when we first started chatting, I showed you this, didn't I?
Oh man, this film is so wonderful. I showed it to Henchgirl and she absolutely fell in love with it, and this version above all others. Heck, for most of the musical, we find it so delightfully macabe and upbeat, even with the tragic ending! We see them as a Victorian Harley and Joker!
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Date: 2009-10-30 07:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 08:19 am (UTC)How can anyone possibly think Cariou is superior? The guy sounds positively bored and one-note through the entire thing, whereas Hearn is burning, passionate, alive! I can't help but suspect many people are just stubbornly clinging to the notion that original=best.
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Date: 2009-10-30 10:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 05:45 pm (UTC)Also, maybe Cariou had wonder chemistry with Lansbury, but it doesn't come off in the soundtrack, not nearly as well as the chemistry she had with Hearn. They were adorable. His Sweeney was 70% Harvey Dent with 30% Joker, with Lansbury as his Harley.
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 05:48 pm (UTC)Henchgirl put it best: Cariou has the purity of voice, but Hearn has the purity of emotion, and the latter is what matters more to me when it comes to what I want from Sweeney.
Or put in comic terms, I want him more Harvey Dent than Victor Fries. ;)
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Date: 2009-10-30 06:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 08:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 07:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 05:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 07:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 04:21 am (UTC)God, if only. *thinks of the costumes* Nnngh.
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Date: 2009-10-30 04:32 am (UTC)And OH GOD NO. GAHH. I know I can always turn to that if I ever need to torture my Henchgirl.
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Date: 2009-10-30 04:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 04:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 04:59 am (UTC)Have you thoughts about season 4 of the Venture Bros.? This latest episode is extremely relevant to Batman cartoons!
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:08 am (UTC)I'm digging the season so far, but nothing's really blown me away just yet. The Captain Sunshine episode was hilarious (once I got past how disturbing it was, hoping I would still be able to enjoy the animated Batman series), and I need to see it a second time.
I had forgotten, until someone has pointed it out, that there had been two Captain Sunshine references in Seasons 1 and 3 respectively. Between that and Sphinx, Doc and Jackson are amazing at following through on their universe. It's like they're their own fanfic writers!
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:12 am (UTC)Platelet comes from "Journey to the Center of the Bat," which features Aquaman and the Atom messing around in Batman's innards. It is my favorite episode and thus the one I feel you should watch next. (It was way better than the musical episode. Trust me on this.)
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:23 am (UTC)I'm not sure where to stand, honestly. I think it was pretty blatant, unless they were trying to do like HARVEY BIRDMAN where Peanut started getting his "powers," treating the entire thing as a metaphor. That's the way I'd prefer to see it, rather than it being explicitly pedophilia.
But even then, the whole premise was kinda... well, obvious and lazy. I mean, that stuff's been around since the 50's with Wertham, and probably even before that. But I liked the way they pulled it off, between Cap's seemingly genuine affection for Hank (compounded with his own deep-seated crazy issues), Conroy's performance (I'm so glad he went far, far beyond just a Batman voice), and all the "Not another one" moments.
Then rest assured, sometime in the next day or so, I'll curl up with Henchgirl and check out "Journey to the Center of the Bat." Because I've only seen a few B:TB&TB, but when it's good, it's great. How was the Booster episode? I'm glad they brought the JLU voices back!
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:33 am (UTC)There's a sizable number of people who think that Cap'n wasn't actually a pedophile, but rather a broken man who wanted to have a father-son type relationship with his sidekicks (who, sadly, kept getting killed by men dressed as butterflies and, presumably, clowns). This makes the pedo stuff a little less obvious, but I don't see why the two are at all mutually exclusive. I guess I'm a Philistine at heart.
I never finished the Booster episode! What I saw I loved, but I had to run out of the house before it was over with. I did really enjoy the episode with Ted-Beetle, of course. Basically if it has Plas or Red Tornado in it, I loved it. There's also a pretty fun episode with G'Nort, Sinestro and Guy working together to save the whole of the Corps (with Bat-assist). I never thought I would think Sinestro is cool XD, but they showed me!
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Date: 2009-10-30 06:00 am (UTC)Oh, I loved that episode. It even made G'Nort enjoyable! Ish!
I know you're not the biggest Geoff Johns fan, but one of the most remarkable things he's accomplished is actually making Sinestro (of all characters) into one of the most badass, compelling, and formidable opponents in comics today. It's thanks to him that we have cool Sinestro in things like that episode and the GL animated movie!
Now if only we could finally get Hal to be interesting and cool again, we'll be golden...
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Date: 2009-10-30 09:26 am (UTC)I enjoyed the episode. A few of the songs fell flat, but Aquaman danced with Grodd so it still comes out in positive.
Had they more time, they probably could've handled the "love" aspect better, but they did only have 20 minutes. That said, the duet at the end made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside so it didn't completely fail in my opinion.
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:57 pm (UTC)I know they only had twenty minutes. I just wish I knew why they dedicated ten of them to the love aspect bullcrap!
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Date: 2009-10-30 06:43 pm (UTC)I was more bothered by the fact that Music Meister went to such great lengths, and essentially conquered the world and enslaved humanity, only to rob them. I was a bit underwhelmed by that. I was also surprised that the heroes managed to get brainwashed even after Batman gave them earpieces but you could argue MM's mooks attacked and managed to take them in some confrontation we never saw.
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Date: 2009-10-30 03:42 pm (UTC)Also, Sinestro was not badass by my reckoning because of his character, but because of his actor. I forgot who it was, but that dude nailed that performance (and had the best voice ever, yes).
B-but Hal is the greatest Green Lantern ever! Don't you read the dialogue boxes?
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:55 pm (UTC)I think it was Xander Berkley, a character actor from the 90's. He was in some TREK, the movie CANDYMAN, and I think POISON IVY 2, the one with Alyssa Milano. Yeah, that kind of actor. I think he also voiced Hal's part in that episode!
Well of course I know that! Geoff Johns just doesn't seem to know how to communicate that fact, bless his fannish heart!
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 06:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 03:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-30 05:56 am (UTC)I don't hate it (I find it very, very hard to hate music of any kind), but whenever I hear "Defying Gravity," my eyes sort of cross and I blank out until the song is over. I don't think this was the intent of the songwriter.
And I admit that I, too, was expecting something entirely different from Batman. Indeed, something like Dr. Horrible, especially since NPH was on-board. Instead, it felt... cheap? I'm not sure if that's the right word. The cartoon is rather shallow, to begin with-- it's a kiddie show, after all, and harmless in an endearing sort of way --but they're usually more witty. *shrugs*
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Date: 2009-10-30 06:06 am (UTC)Yeah, I know the show's budget could limit the quality of the music, but that shouldn't hamper the quality of the lyrics! Maybe they should have gotten someone with actual wit, like Paul Dini (whose Bat-Mite episode is still one of the highlights of that entire series so far).
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Date: 2009-10-30 07:25 pm (UTC)That is exactly it.
Are musicals now afraid to actually be musicals? I mean, it seems like they've erected a wall somewhere in the late 80s and everything that came before that doesn't count. Or, rather, they won't admit to it. (However, this has afforded me a one-up on some of my friends: I can sit and watch The Pied Piper of Hamlin, in its entirety, and find it enjoyable. My friends, who associate "musical" with "Moulin Rouge," and who are unused to such... oddness... will generally be clawing at their eyes ten minutes in.)
Further, and this is just my own rant, ignore if you like: Musicals =/= Cirque du Soleil. When they announced it a few years ago, I was semi-excited about the prospect of a LotR musical. If anything, there had to be good costumes or staging or something. Then I saw clips. Augh. No. Why.
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Date: 2009-10-30 09:55 am (UTC)...I'm afraid you and I are no longer on speaking terms.
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Date: 2009-10-30 05:34 pm (UTC)If it helps, I do love "Master of the House." but only that
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Date: 2009-10-30 06:09 pm (UTC)Okay, so maybe cutting off all ties with people who don't share my taste in musicals is a little drastic. I'll stick to quietly booing you.
As far as common ground goes...I also see nothing terribly appealing about Wicked (though I do admit some fondness for 'Popular.')
Boo, boooooo! Also, boooo html fail
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Date: 2009-10-30 09:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-31 12:51 pm (UTC)Also, that spinning Joker icon is just hypnotic.