thought-provoking articles of note

[thehefner]

DEATH PROOF is a bomb in Europe.

Okay. Much like the article's writer, I'm genuinely confused and frustrated to the point of exasperation. How could GRINDHOUSE fail to attract people, either separately or together? I honestly cannot imagine--especially in the face of massive hits like 300--audiences just rejecting this film (these films) en masse. Tarantino is a big name, and DEATH PROOF (especially the extended cut, from what I understand) might be one of his very best films. It's certainly his most original, homage-free movie, which in of itself is impressive for the guy.

Seriously. Someone explain it to me how the greatest theatrical experience I've had this year (and certainly one of the best of all time) could fail so badly.



Devin from CHUD.com on "Are Video Games Art?" Although that's not exactly what it's about, it's just the shortest title I can think of. It's a fascinating article, and less bitterly-assholish than I'd usually expect from Devin. He actually makes some good arguments for the (potential) artistic legitimacy for both video games and comics, while characteristically looking down at the more passionate geeks.

Evan Dorkin did a wonderful strip recently where he wondered what it'd be like if fans treated other forms the art the way comic fans treat comics? "Hey, did you read the newspaper today? There was a whole article about MUSIC! I feel so legitimized!" "Oh my God, a BOOK won some big award! Amazing! Hooray, we have validation!" He's absolutely spot-on.

Maybe getting over our insecurity is a step in the right direction, one every bit as important as having more artists who can legitimately tell adult stories that don't rely expressly on extreme sex, violence, or profanity. Comics as an art form will never die, no matter how "diminishing" the industry may be. kkglinka's brilliant post only solidified that belief in my mind.

Still, I have to wonder who our modern Will Eisner might be. From 1939 to 2005, it was still Will Eisner himself. No one was doing comics like him before, during, or since Eisner. Few others (Alan Moore at the top of this select list) really see the potential for the medium's possibilities. I have to wonder when (if ever) we'll see another Mozart of sequential art.

Comments

[kali921.livejournal.com]

I suspect that part of the problem in Europe is that they simply have no grindhouse tradition whatsoever, by which I mean sleazy, dirty theaters showing cheaply made schlocky films for $1.00 every Saturday. While WE look at Grindhouse through the smeared lens of satire, refracted and filtered through an aesthetic shaped by the grindhouse experience, they have no such equivalent. Period.

I don't know who the next Eisner will be; I see pockets of brilliance here and there throughout the sequential art medium, certainly. As you and I have discussed many times, sometimes Ennis' work on Punisher can be heartstoppingly intense and emotionally visceral.

Sometimes Ellis writes something brilliant, but let's be honest; Ellis is more style and a detached intellect, rather than writing anything with real emotional impact.

It's certainly not going to be Winick, THAT'S FOR FUCKING SURE.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Maybe that's part of it. If the answer's to be found anywhere, it's in the mismarketing, and perhaps they should have marketed the GRINDHOUSE movies less as "this is a throwback geekstravaganza!" and more "this is an asskicking movie!" in its own right.

As for Ennis, yes, there are serious moments there. But the vast majority of what he does is proof positive to me of exactly the kind of juvinile mentality that's holding comics back. Not that I don't think there's a place for it, nor does it have merit on its own standing. But holy crap, when THE BOYS the symbol of one of the most popular books out there, what's that say for the mentality of modern comic readers?

TRANSMETROPOLITAN might be Ellis' most realized, thoughtful, artistic work. It actually had something to say, but there was lots of real humanity throughout. I dare say there are some genuinely brilliant moments. But the sad fact is, I'm hard pressed to think up anything else of serious worth he's done. Lots of critics put him just under Alan Moore, which I think is plain wrong. I defy anyone to seriously hold your average Ellis book to your average Moore story.

Ugh, don't get either of us started on Winnick.

EXFUCKINGZACTLY.

[kali921.livejournal.com]

But the vast majority of what he does is proof positive to me of exactly the kind of juvinile mentality that's holding comics back.

EX.

FUCKING.

ZACTLY.

I mean, it's hard being a college educated adult in comics fandom; you're looked down upon by the unwashed, ignorant masses in the Supernatural fandom, etc. that point at you and say "you're serious about COMICS? At least we have a television show with real live actors!"

I have to explain until I'm blue in the virtual face that comics have grown, that these characters have twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years of evolving characterization behind them, that we HAVE NO OTHER equivalent to modern mythologies EXCEPT for comics, and that the medium can produce beautifully subtle work.

But every book like the Young Avengers and The Boys drags the entire medium down. It does, I'm sorry. It's just so FAR from the sublime beauty that the medium is capable of in skilled hands. Why do you think I love cosmic Marvel? It's taking the greatest ideas from all myths and traditions, and synthesizing them beautifully into a shining, intellectualized whole, REPLETE WITH ASS KICKINGS! Cosmic Marvel has always been at the cerebral end of the comics continuum, and that's why I LIKE IT SO MUCH!

C'mon, man. Eternity uttering the line "he is...outside the loop of destiny." That right there? Shows how GREAT the medium can be.

[gore-whore-5.livejournal.com]

Deathproof probably failed because it was on its own (as both films are supposed to be in Europe. Stupid tactic, if you ask me), and if it is even longer, as you say, it will bore people to death before it gets to the good part. 20 minutes of the boring, vapid girls could have been cut without any damage to the story. It only got interesting once you met Stunt Man Mike. The second set of girls are fabulous and I am completely in love with them (Zoe Bell will be my wife. Just wait!), but if people have to wait even longer to get to them, yeah it's not going to do well at the box office.

Sorry, hon.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I don't buy it.

That argument would work if we were talking about critical failure, or bad word of mouth. The fact it, DEATH PROOF, especially the extended cut, has gotten rave reviews, saying it's far, far superior to its edited version in GRINDHOUSE. I'm talking about people not buying tickets to see the film in the first place.

The fact that I thoroughly disagree about the first half being boring (it's like good, long slow sex, taking its time and teasing you) notwithstanding, the word is that the extended version fleshes EVERYTHING out, including putting back in the supposedly-brilliant lap dance, as well giving both stories much more development.

Tarantino said that he and Rodriguiez cut their films "way past the bone" to fit them into GRINDHOUSE. The extended, stand-alone DEATH PROOF got a standing ovation at Cannes. And yet, people didn't go see it in the first place. If they'd have gotten bored or not is immaterial. They didn't go at all.

And the fact is, KILL BILL aside, no one goes to see a Tarantino movie for action anyway. Long, drawn-out, tedious dialogue is what made him world-famous.

THAT'S why I'm so confused and frustrated.

[tompurdue.livejournal.com]

Well, how are the reviews? People will stay away from a film, no matter how good, if the reviews are bad.

How well do Tarantino films do in general in Europe. Supposedly the Europeans don't care for violent movies; they love to cite examples of how Americans can't stand sex and love violence, and they think that's all fucked up.

But I've seen LOCK, STOCK, AND TWO SMOKING BARRELS, and I've seen PERFUME: THE STORY OF A MURDER and from those two data points I draw the conclusion that Europeans are total fucktards.

'Course, those were British films, and the Brits do have at least a small Tarantino thing. But I don't know how his films play in the rest of Europe.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

I have not looked up the common reviews since its release, but word from Cannes was extreme positive. I believe an ovation was involved. And several of the reviews I'd read since were similarly strong. But no, I have not gone on BBC or Time Out UK to read the reactions there.

Yeah, the Brits have a Tarantino thing, that's for sure. But that's a good question, I wonder how well they do in the rest of Europe.

But as for them being total fucktards... well, Jerry Lewis. There we go.

[lairdofdarkness.livejournal.com]

Simple Answer to this one
They split the movie and now why should people pay for one, admittedly longer film, when they were originally getting two? I love the T but will wait till both are out on DVD and have my own GRINDHOUSE night.
Maybe that makes me a philistine but at least I am being honest about this. All the reveiws of the films are good but with there being no tradition of GH movies over here, they may have failed anyway. However the failure in the US has stopped this theory being put to the test.
Its a shame.

As for Warren Ellis, I like his writing and he is definately one of my favourite writers out there. He is not as good as Alan Moore, nor is he trying to be. He is good enough to stand on his own and on his website, he is very enthusiastic about the possibilities that comics as a medium offer. Maybe cos I am a Scot that I have a preference for British writers over American ones?

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

Also, I don't know if you guys are getting the fake trailers, which are all wonderful.

But on the other hand, R & T made two full-length films that they both had to cut, and I quote, "way past the bone" to fit in three hours. All reports I've heard attest to the superiority of the extended DEATH PROOF, although I'd have to wonder if PLANET TERROR really needed more film time. It's so tight and gleefully mindless as it stands.

But yeah, at this point, having a DVD marathon of the extended versions would be a grand idea. Just a warning for when you watch DEATH PROOF though: be patient. That's a film that takes its sweet fucking time, and you just gotta trust Tarantino that he knows what he's doing.

Ellis is one of the modern greats, but at the same time, I have to wonder what he (or anyone!) has done that really transcends the medium in the way Moore and Eisner and old-school Miller have done. However, it's clear that he's mindful of the possibilities in ways that far too few are not, and that's refreshing and encouraging. He posted some scans of Howard Chaykin's AMERICAN FLAGG!, comic art that did things that could only be done in comic form, and it was awesome. While I don't care for 70% of Grant Morrison, he certainly understands and takes advantage of the form as well.

[morganashkevron.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling I'm going to be alone here ont his one, but Tarantino films are not everyone's cup of tea. When you look at the cultures of Europe and America, you can see that there's a lot more violence her in the States, so movie like Grindhouse that is centered in that culture of violence won't necessarily be embraced by other people.

This is just a personal oppinion and I mean no disrespect to the fans or to the director himself, but Tarantino is way too aggressive a filmmaker for my tastes. I didn't enjoy Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs (blasphemous, I know), because I have a hard time getting past all the violence to a point where I can appreciate the story and characters. I'm a movie wimp - any time there's a severed limb or a serious amount of gore, I have to leave the room. And maybe that sort of feeling is more prevalent in Europe, which would explain (in part) why they haven't all lined up to see Tarantino's latest.

[thehefner.livejournal.com]

But it was similarly a bomb here in America too, and that's what boggles the mind. SIN CITY, KILL BILL, and similar (but inferior) fare like 300 have all been huge hits here, but somehow GRINDHOUSE is a rousing failure.

What you say about Europe holds truth, aye, but I also can't get beyond how much slower DEATH PROOF (on its own especially) is than the usual Tarantino film. With the exception of really just a few precious seconds of film time, it's likely his least violent film. The vast majority are people just talking, which frankly has driven many expectant, blood-thirsty fans crazy, going "What the hell is this? Get to the action! Gah, SO bored!" Me, though, I thought it was excellent filmmaking, and from what I read, Cannes agreed.