my favorite Two-Face story ever, plus a great interview with Greg Rucka

[thehefner]

In the first Two-Face Tuesday post since Fresno three weeks ago, I've posted what I consider to be the definitive Harvey Dent story, my gold standard for everything related to this character up at about_faces.

I strongly resisted the urge to just post the whole damn thing here too. Besides being my favorite Two-Face comic, it's just plain one of my favorite comics period, Batman or otherwise. If you haven't read it, I urge you to check it out.

As a side note, I'm really pleased with the edit I did for the scanning. I cut out an entire subplot (which is honestly the weakest part of the whole story), and the result is even leaner and tighter than the actual issue.



In other (more general) comic news, Comics Alliance has a fascinating interview with Greg Rucka. Normally I hate interviews because they're all full of pabalum and bullshit, especially in an industry where everyone is so afraid to speak their minds or discuss comics critically in any way but to boost sales. Rucka's is a breath of fresh air on a number of front, from how he talks about Wonder Woman...

Diana – there are people who hate her. I mean, they just hate the concept of a Wonder Woman. They really do. You've seen – I don't even want to call it "fan-based art" – but I'm sure everybody's seen the various images out there. That speaks to something going on. Somebody is real scared of her. He's really afraid of her. And I don't know why. I don't understand where that comes from. So there's that. And people want to simplify her, so they go, she's Superman with tits. Well, no. She's not. It's a completely different background...

... to the ever-present problem of dwindling readership in comics and what should be done about it:

I'd put comics back in the spinner racks and 7-Elevens and grocery stores and Walmart. That's what's killing us. I was talking to Dan DiDio today -- the best-selling Marvel or DC book today is going to sell a quarter of a million. That's nothing, guys. That's nothing. If a TV show has a quarter of a million people watching it, it would not make it through the second episode. It might not even make it through it's first broadcast. I'm serious. I'm not joking.

Look at manga -- it has millions of readers. Europeans comics, in the millions. What the hell is going on in this country with our comics that we can't break out?

I'd sorta fallen out of love with Rucka's with stuff like OMAC PROJECT, but this interview--coupled with his recent work--has reminded me just how much of a loss it is that he's leaving DC for the foreseeable future. And not just because I want my Renee Montoya and Two-Face reunion/rematch, damn it!

Comments

[pokeyburro.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure it's lust, more than fear. The "put in her place" schtick is in making up the stuck-up part, so that there's less guilt afterward. Look at it this way: there's pinup art of her as well. Do you think it sells to the same audience?

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Look at it this way: there's pinup art of her as well. Do you think it sells to the same audience?

While I'm sure there's some degree of Venn Diagram overlap, to a large extent, no, I don't think they do sell to the same audience, because I'm all about the superhero porn, even to the extent of consensual BDSM, but so much of the stuff featuring Wonder Woman makes me feel like I've waded into crime scene evidence rather than erotica. Even if we assume that Wonder Woman is a virgin (and isn't THAT a creepy assumption that everyone makes), I see no reason why we can't have fun showing her in an enjoyably nasty romp of sweaty, super-powered grinding, WITHOUT Mongul or Ares or Cyborg-Hitler deflowering her against her will.

[pokeyburro.livejournal.com]

You might be right. I suspect there's more overlap than you claim, but it's not really my crowd. (I can't even imagine the union of both sets being more than a million to begin with. Seems like such a niche market. It's hard to measure, since American audiences are so schizophrenic about porn.)

Here's the thing. To write WW, or any established comic book character - hell, I guess this goes for any fanfic in general - as sexual, is usually to write against how the character is portrayed. (If it isn't - e.g., Druuna - then it doesn't really count for my purposes here.) If it's against portrayal, then it's already feeling to the fanfic/fanart creator like they're raping the portrayal anyway, so it's hard to get away from the guilt. So they make up this bit about "putting her in her place". Not all fan creators cope with it this way; that's where the consensual stuff comes from.

I'm just armchair theorizing, though.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

I can't even imagine the union of both sets being more than a million to begin with. Seems like such a niche market.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The American porn market makes nearly a BILLION (that's "billion" with a Carl Sagan "b") more dollars per year than the "legitimate" film industry.

And that's just the high-end on-the-books corporate-produced stuff, which should give you some sense of the size of the subset audiences for fetish-specific stuff.

There's a reason why Rule 34 of the Internet exists.

To write WW, or any established comic book character - hell, I guess this goes for any fanfic in general - as sexual, is usually to write against how the character is portrayed.

Absolutely untrue, to my mind, especially as an ever-increasing number of former fans, who themselves once produced fan art and fanfic of those same characters, become the official custodians of their "canon" portrayals (see also: Russell T. Davies sexing up Doctor Who).

[pokeyburro.livejournal.com]

That's just it. Even if it's $100 billion a year (and I'm skeptical of that figure - seems overreported), I'm not talking about everyone who's ever spent money on porn; I'm talking about just the ones who fetishize comic books enough to spend money on it.

Now juxtapose that with Greg Rucka's remark. Suppose he's right; 250k buyers of the bestseller. If there's ten times that audience for all comics in general, 40% of them would have to be into comics fetish, including the violent stuff.

Again, you might be right - but it seems a bit much, based on my Fermian analysis.

Re: portrayal - isn't WW supposed to be an emissary, feminist figure from her people? Not a sex vamp, though she's drawn that way. I don't know deep details of Marston's depiction, but that's generally what I've seen in all the comics I've happened to read. I find it hard to believe that women in general were all made out as overt sex kittens (the 90s notwithstanding).

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Even if it's $100 billion a year (and I'm skeptical of that figure - seems overreported)

Seems UNDERreported to me, considering that at least a certain portion of this figure necessarily relies upon consumers admitting to the full extent of their porn purchasing habits.

I'm talking about just the ones who fetishize comic books enough to spend money on it.

This assumes that all comic book porn is produced on a pay-per-pussy-shot basis, when in point of fact, a great deal of it is produced, if not for free, then at least on a promotional basis for the for-pay stuff. Plus, on online comms like WWOEC, fan artists will frequently "pay" one another in the form of "art trades," each doing porn pieces to the other's requests, in lieu of actual cash.

Re: portrayal - isn't WW supposed to be an emissary, feminist figure from her people?

How is that in any way contrary to her having a healthy, active and even *gasp!* raunchy sex life in private?

I don't know deep details of Marston's depiction [...]

Then you really don't know Wonder Woman, because Marston's conception of her, all the way back in the WWII era, was as an OVERT bondage queen, who EXPLICITLY PREACHED sexual submission (among both genders, no less) as a means of achieving universal peace.

[shadowlongknife.livejournal.com]

Even if we assume that Wonder Woman is a virgin (and isn't THAT a creepy assumption that everyone makes), I see no reason why we can't have fun showing her in an enjoyably nasty romp of sweaty, super-powered grinding

THIS.

And I don't buy that she's never had sex, that's a really ridiculous thing that fans have somehow stapled onto her. I have the suspicion most people who think Wonder Woman has never had sex hasn't had sex they haven't payed cash up front for.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

And I don't buy that she's never had sex, that's a really ridiculous thing that fans have somehow stapled onto her. I have the suspicion most people who think Wonder Woman has never had sex hasn't had sex they haven't payed cash up front for.

To be fair, it's been the official party line of DC editorial for quite a while now, to the point that entire in-canon stories have been devoted to it, but I discount those on the grounds that none of Wonder Woman's "creators," outside of William Moulton Marston, are anything more than legally licensed fanfic writers for her, so the only thing that makes their interpretation more valid than mine is that they've been paid for their opinions.

[kingrockwell]

to the point that entire in-canon stories have been devoted to it

Uh, which ones? pretty much every creator who's worked with her i've seen discuss the issue has stated that she isn't, btw

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

By his own admission, the entire reason that Phil Jiminez created Trevor Barnes was to be "the perfect man" to be Diana's sexual first, and pretty much every single creator I can think of who's discussed it has said that she IS a virgin.

[kingrockwell]

Ugh, Trevor. There was nothing perfect about him. Besides, Diana was involved with Rama for a short time before him.

Jimenez is an okay guy, but he's always had funny ideas about things. I know Simone has said and Rucka prolly would say the virgin thing is ridiculous.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Gail and Greg are shining diamonds of good in a sea of crapulent Fail, when it comes to Diana's portrayal, and I say this as someone who really DIDN'T like Gail's portrayal of Diana's love life, not in the least because there simply was no way to rescue Tom Tresser from the Scrappy heap, and the fact that Gail even tried to do so pretty much ruined her run.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

In fact, here's an article on it, albeit badly out of date by now, that points out what bullshit it is that Diana *has* to stay a virgin.